standover height

15 replies · 4,607 views

nellborg
142 posts
#1Feb 23, 2019, 8:50 AM
How much does standover height matter for a midwest gravel bike? The reason I ask is that I'm one of those middle age non-flexible guys with a bad neck, short arms ... and I am pretty comfortable with the tops of my bars at about the same height as the saddle - or maybe 1-2 cm below my saddle.

I just ordered a new frame in a size L, and the standover height listed puts my crotch right at the top tube. I like the stack and reach of that frame, though. Going one size down lowers the stack 2.5 cm (but the reach only drops 5 mm). Standover drops 2 cm, so not a huge amount.

I haven't ridden a road bike for 20 yrs, so I've sort of forgotten how road bike fit feels and if a high standover is a problem or not.

In the 80's, I went from a large comfortable road bike frame to a too small racing frame with slammed stem like everyone else did and it sucked in retrospect. In the 90's, I got a big Rivendell frame (custom, so they chose the frame size based on their ideas) and built it up with Campy, and I remember it was really good.

So, to get a certain stack height, do I want a larger frame with fewer spacers and a level stem, or a smaller frame with lots of spacers and an upward pointing stem? I'm leaning towards the former and taking the compromised standover height.
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ljsmith
762 posts
#2Feb 23, 2019, 9:08 AM
Unless you are planning to ride a lot of singletrack then standover really doesn't matter as long as the frame fits you well. When riding gravel you usually spend all your time in the saddle and you are not going to get thrown out of your pedals and slam on the top tube, in fact this rarely happens with most mountain biking. As long as you can physically stand over the bike then it should be fine.
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nellborg
142 posts
#3Feb 23, 2019, 3:49 PM
Thanks for the reply. I'll keep my order for the larger frame as it stands.
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Caliper
38 posts
#4Mar 1, 2019, 11:07 AM
Yup, I've got some bikes where the top tube will just give some gentle pressure while standing over the frame. Riding in Michigan at least, gravel riding is pretty much gravel roads and thus a road fit works fine. Heck, I've even used look pedals and road shoes for many, many miles and never an issue.
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chas
1,305 posts
#5Mar 1, 2019, 1:38 PM
For the alternative view.
I have a lugged steel bike that I love. However it is old school geometry with a horizontal (non sloping) top tube that is pretty tall. The only difference it really makes to me is that there is very little exposed seat post. That means the seat post can not absorb any shock.
I have some nice flexy carbon seat posts (Canyon, ergon, specialized CG-R) that are great at passively absorbing shock, but they do nothing on this frame. There is not enough exposed for the seat post to flex. I do use an active seat post (small Thudbuster) on it and that works fine.
Just something to keep in mind. Stiff seat posts are horrible on gravel, flexy ones are nice, but don’t work without a lot of seat post exposed, and active seat post are great, but if your seat is too low, it may not fit. Food for thought.
I was between frame sizes, and went for the small frame (and lower stack height) partially because the seat post worked so well with a lot exposed. It also makes for a more agile bike. The larger frame would have given me more stack, and been more stable.
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chas
1,305 posts
#6Mar 1, 2019, 1:40 PM
Caliper wrote:Yup, I've got some bikes where the top tube will just give some gentle pressure while standing over the frame. Riding in Michigan at least, gravel riding is pretty much gravel roads and thus a road fit works fine. Heck, I've even used look pedals and road shoes for many, many miles and never an issue.

Riding in Michigan around here at least, I realize how nice and smooth our "gravel" is and how bad our asphalt is. Its Ironic that the ride gets rougher when it transitions from dirt to asphalt.
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bnystrom
459 posts
#7Mar 2, 2019, 9:20 AM
Whether your strategy is a workable one depends on where you intend to ride. If it's going to be exclusively on maintained dirt/gravel roads and pavement, you should be OK, but it's not ideal. If you're going to to be on unmaintained dirt roads (logging roads, fire roads, etc.) or trails, not being able to stand over the frame comfortably could become a problem. I do a lot of the latter, so standover is important. Also, if you ride with groups where you stop frequently - and perhaps unexpectedly at times - you'll appreciate some crotch clearance.

Personally, I would not buy a frame that compromises fit and function in any way, no matter how much I like it otherwise. Proper fit should always be the number one priority. You've experienced poorly fit bikes and the issues they cause in the past, so why would you compromise fit again?
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Caliper
38 posts
#8Mar 2, 2019, 10:53 AM
bnystrom wrote:Personally, I would not buy a frame that compromises fit and function in any way, no matter how much I like it otherwise. Proper fit should always be the number one priority. You've experienced poorly fit bikes and the issues they cause in the past, so why would you compromise fit again?

With a level top tube, sometimes proper fit does result in a tight standover height depending on the desired stack height. Sure, that's why sloping top tubes were invented, but for many of us this isn't an issue if the riding style tilts toward the road rather than offroad.
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bnystrom
459 posts
#9Mar 2, 2019, 11:56 AM
There is so much variability in the frames on the market that you can almost always find something desirable that doesn't compromise the fit. When I'm in the market for a frame, the first thing I do when I see something interesting is to check the dimensions. If the numbers aren't right, I move on. I'd rather be disappointed before I plunk down a bunch of cash.
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Koyote
288 posts
#10Mar 3, 2019, 9:10 AMedited
OP: I'm in your situation and just ordered a custom frame. I'll get the stack and reach I want, and -- with a sloping top tube -- I'll get the standover height that I need, too. But even in designing a custom frame there are tradeoffs, just like in your choice of a stock frame. For example, I don't care for a sloping TT - but it's the only way to get the right fit, so there it is.

In a production frame, I was considering a Kona Libre or Libre DL -- check it out. Tall stack, shorter reach, and a sloping TT gives good standover. It might be just the ticket for you. Ignore their sizes (they do it weirdly - I normally ride a 58, but I would be on a 54 Kona) and just focus on the three aforementioned measures.
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nellborg
142 posts
#11Mar 3, 2019, 1:06 PM
That Kona has a higher stack than what I ended up ordering, but thanks for the input - I'll keep it in mind just in case I need a higher stack - though I figure my bar height will be about even with the seat. I bought a Lynskey GR as it looked to be about the highest stack that I could find. It should arrive in a couple of weeks.

I'm sure that I'm not alone in finding the right fit. I started racing road and mtb in 1983, but took the last 15 yrs off. I can use my 20 yr old bikes as a rough starting point for stack, reach, etc. , but, as a mid 50's guy with an ailing back and neck, I know that I have got to have a higher bar position, but what that will end up being is an unknown right now - I suspect the top of the bars will be somewhere near the height of the seat, though, so not extreme. I could get a bike fit, but I'm skeptical that anyone would be able to give me anything more than a starting point to work from, and I already have that. So, I bought the Lynskey just to give me more upside to stack relative to reach. I should have 3" of standover height clearance with the L frame that I bought and I only plan to ride this bike on gravel and easy trail here in the midwest.

But, as to my original question, lots of stem spacers, an upwards angled stem, and too much seat post just doesn't look like an optimal setup to me. Is there an optimal length of exposed seat post, stem spacers, stem length, and stem angle - or at least numbers that have been thrown around as being in the middle and what frames are designed around?
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bnystrom
459 posts
#12Mar 3, 2019, 2:21 PM
nellborg wrote:I should have 3" of standover height clearance with the L frame that I bought...

If you're going to have 3" of clearance, what's the issue? In your first post, you said that you'd be right on the top tube.
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nellborg
142 posts
#13Mar 3, 2019, 4:43 PM
My apologies - I had two standover measurements in my head when I was typing and it came out incorrectly. I was thinking of that older way that horizontal top tube frames were measured, i.e. stand over the bike and lift the handlebars and measure the height of the front wheel off the ground and crotch to top tube without lifting the bike. So, real standover height without lifting the bike - I'm guessing - might be an inch or two, which is less than most riders have.

That Kona looks interesting in case I need another bike. I'll look for some reviews of it.
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chas
1,305 posts
#14Mar 5, 2019, 10:42 AM
nellborg wrote:
But, as to my original question, lots of stem spacers, an upwards angled stem, and too much seat post just doesn't look like an optimal setup to me. Is there an optimal length of exposed seat post, stem spacers, stem length, and stem angle - or at least numbers that have been thrown around as being in the middle and what frames are designed around?

Well, the middle is whatever comes stock on the bike.
My old mountain bikes came with 120mm stems. Now they are less that 50mm. Depends how the frame is designed. Even with Gravel/CX bikes, there is a trend to longer top tubes and shorter stems.
Exposed seat tube:
as much as you can for optimum comfort and shock absorption.
As little as possible if you are bike packing – in that case you want as much area in the frame triangle for your frame bag and/or water bottles.
Height – Ideally your handlebars would be as high as your seat for a relaxed fit (lower if you are more aggressive).
Handlebar stems – your bike will probably come with the maximum number of spacers already on it – that is going to be limited by the length of the steerer tube. With a carbon steerer tube, I don’t think you’ll see much more than 30mm. More is possible if Aluminum
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bnystrom
459 posts
#15Mar 5, 2019, 11:37 AMedited
Great advice overall, but there's one thing I would add:
chas wrote:
Height – Ideally your handlebars would be as high as your seat for a relaxed fit (lower if you are more aggressive).
It's not necessarily about being aggressive as much as it's about body proportions. I have long arms and legs for my height, so my bars need to be considerably lower than my saddle in order to not be sitting too upright. On my gravel bike, that difference is 8cm. This puts the bars 2cm higher than on my road bikes because I want a slightly higher position.
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Koyote
288 posts
#16Mar 6, 2019, 8:18 AM
nellborg wrote:
But, as to my original question, lots of stem spacers, an upwards angled stem, and too much seat post just doesn't look like an optimal setup to me. Is there an optimal length of exposed seat post, stem spacers, stem length, and stem angle - or at least numbers that have been thrown around as being in the middle and what frames are designed around?

"Optimal" might be the enemy of "good enough."

I have a ten-year old road bike that I bought when I was younger and more flexible. Now, to ride it comfortably over longer distances, I have raised the stem and angled it upwards. Sure, it doesn't look "cool," but it works for me.

Similarly, I am in the process of having a custom gravel frame built right now. It'll have a tall headtube and still will have about 30mm of spacers under the stem, which will be -6 degrees. And it will have a sloping TT in order to give adequate standover height. Some of these features don't look "optimal," but I am more interested in getting a good fit -- both right now, and in ten years when I will need to make further adjustments to accommodate my bad back.
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