You might want to test ride some of the newer carbon fiber bikes that have little suspension bits added in, like the Specialized Diverge -- it has shock absorbers built into the headtube and seatpost. Might be the best of both worlds, really.
Me, I just like the appearance of an old-school steel frame, and I wanted a traditional threaded BB, hence the Gunnar. And yeah, you can add a lot of compliance with the right tires and psi.
Carbon doesn't really interest me at the moment - although I did once have an early Trek OCLV road bike in 1995 that was "pretty ok" in that it soaked up road vibrations well. And carbon probably does do a better job at soaking up all the vertical vibrations than steel does.
But, really, it's lateral compliance that makes steel bikes feel like steel. When you push on the pedals and feel the BB sway a bit from side to side and spring back between pedal strokes, and occasionally feel a little bit of a whole bike shimmy when it over-resonates over bumpy roads, and the feeling like it's kind of assisting you when you're climbing out of the saddle - that's what I'm after. And, no, I don't need a horse and saddle....
You might want to look into the Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross, as already mentioned. Yes, a Taiwanese built frame, but you did say you weren't interested in "the name." I believe Guitar Ted now has two, and has posted his opinions.
I'm not sure how I missed the BMC monster cross, thanks. Aside from the sloping top tube and the really high stack, it pretty much fits what I I've been looking for. I might have to give the designer/importer a call and discuss the tubing they use. It doesn't look too oversized in pics, so it might ride nicely, and I didn't read anything on the BMC site about optimization for stiffness...
I've also begun, very preliminarily, discussing a custom build with a guy out in Seattle who - I'm fairly confident about this - builds lively, springy frames on purpose.
I've also begun, very preliminarily, discussing a custom build with a guy out in Seattle who - I'm fairly confident about this - builds lively, springy frames on purpose.
Then you might as well start reading Bicycle Quarterly and going down the rabbit hole of planing.
I've read much of that stuff - that which is online for free, anyway, and I know what they're talking about because I'm looking for that same thing. But, "planing" is a really bad term for it, IMO.
hah, you should ask Jan Heine - as he writes about them all the time.
Genesis (UK) has some nice bikes. Raleigh Tamland or Surly maybe.
It may be a fruitless quest though. The front of the bikes these days seem to be built pretty strong and stiff. Partially, that is due to disk brakes which put the torque down low on a front fork. Makes me want to break out my friend's old waterford though. I liked that one so much I bought a 25 year old Specialized Allez - from the days when steel ruled. Nice ride, even if its a squeeze to put 28mm tires on it.
You are right though. If I'm putting out 1000+ watts, I want a stiff responsive ride. But when I'm cruising along at a "80-250 watts for a hundred miles with occasional forays up to a few hundred watts" steel is very nice.
I did have a debate with jan about soft noodly frames that "plane." He acquiesced that, at 1000+ watts it doesn't work well, but I agree with him that at the endurance pace we ride, whippy steel frame does very well.
Volsung wrote:Agree on custom. Most modern steel bikes from the big names are built for the average American who apparently weighs 250 pounds. Those of us considerably less than that end up suffering through an inferior ride quality.
So, I did a short 90 minute ride yesterday on my Rivendell/Waterford 753 tubed road bike (shorter chain stays, steeper head tube angle, higher BB) with Conti 4000 28c's at 85psi, and then a long ride today on the Lynskey gravel bike with Compass 44's at 28/30 psi.
On pavement, over the expansion cracks/joints that we have in Wisconsin, the road bike soaked them up far better than did the gravel bike - even with the huge difference in tires. It was very noticeable and that got me to thinking why... my guess is that when the thin tubed steel road bike hits the bumps in the road, the jolt gets transmitted into the frame and dissipated out laterally as sort of a lateral vibration or shimmy, which kind of mixes in with the flex that's always occurring at the BB when you pedal, whereas the super stiff Lynskey, and most gravel bikes out there today, have no option but to transmit the jolt straight upwards to the rider. That's what seemed to be happening, anyway.
Regarding oversized head tubes and stiffer forks for discs, I would still suspect that that shouldn't kill the flex in the bike to much, particularly the lateral flex that occurs between the front and rear contact patches, i.e. the hubs, provided that line along the down tube, BB, and chain stays can flex well. Or, is that not the case?
The Romanceur can fit 700x42s too, they say. Kind of a big price on a weird bike to roll the dice on though.
Black Mountain Cycles just had an Instagram post today saying that their frames are springy. Something like that you could move all your Lynskey stuff over and do a straight frame test. If it isn't your jam I'm sure they retain a lot of their value
I'll second a Soma Wolverine. For such a cheap frame, it rides great. Granted, I'm only 150 lbs. and have the Soma Carbon fork. I've gone the custom route a few times and my SS MTB is a custom Samsara. My roadie is an old school Lemons Tete de Course, carbon and to goodness. Both of them have seen considerably less time outside the garage since I built the Wolvie.
This is from a recent Cali trip. I was able to sneak a ride in during games at my daughter's soccer tournament and a buddy on his Fuji.
I took my ’94 lugged steel road racer out for a spin this weekend. Such a nice ride (at least when I don’t have to sprint). Its nice to be reminded what steel was like when it was at its peak. Oddly I got a KOM on a route that I had been hammering on with my carbon bike all summer. I had thought I was doing 80-90% effort, not KOM effort. Surprised that the old girl still has it in her. Must be because steel is always going to be more aero than Carbon or Aluminum – lol.
That ovalized top tube and the OS down tube on the Cotic sound sort of like a stiffer-than-needs -to-be ride....
In any case, I purchased a Black Mountain Cycles MCD and it's being built up right now. I will try to give it a thorough thrashing in a 100 mile gravel race this weekend.
Every report on this frame that I can find is positive - which makes me a bit skeptical. But, I've got an open mind about it and I don't have "a horse in this race", so to speak because I don't really care whether I will like the MCD or not. I see this frame as a stepping stone towards getting a custom steel bike built up, in that it'll serve as a data point for the tubing (diameter, butting) discussions with a frame builder this winter.
I have an MCD and i like it. I made an error on size ( my fault ) and had to buy another frame. I was able to sell the original one. My wife has the Road + and likes it also. Really glad we went with a frame with a threaded BB. We also went with a White Industries VBC cranks. I really like the cranks and have already changed out the big chainring. We will upgrade the brakes to Hydros from cable actuated soon. I also have a Carbon Warbird and although I like it, the MCD rides and handles much better.
