How many out there have, or are considering, any of the Direct to Consumer brands? One of the most well known high end brands is Canyon.
I was just on a group ride where I saw an Obed. Checking out pricing it appears to be about $800 to $1,000 less than a similarly equipped GRX 810 Ibis Hakka MX or Santa Cruise Stigmata.
NoCoGreg I guess you know Raleigh is out of the gravel mfg. biz and leaving it to Diamondback Bought my Tamland 1 for $799 + $49 taz LBS wanted $1200
Bought my Roker for $1652 MSRP was $2700
So yeah I would buy direct after going to the same Company shop to try out sizing. I think my next bike might be a Warbird end of season and might go get sizing and then look for a steal of a deal end of season.
I bought my frame and parts online then assembled the bike at home. In some sense that's direct to consumer but other than a good deal on the frame I didn't get volume or wholesale pricing. In the end I don't think I saved any (or much) money but I did get exactly what I wanted, including custom frame dimensions.
Zman - yes it's too bad Raleigh decided to go that direction. Their products are all focused on the low end market. That's too bad as they made some very good gravel bikes but I guess they just couldn't get traction in the higher end market.
I think that once the COVID market and display chain disruption (chaos?) subsides I think the DtC vendors are going to put pressure on major brands to be more cost competitive. At the end of the day most of the frames are coming from China/Taiwan and there is little product differentiation on the component builds in that the majority of the components come from a few major brands (Shimano, SRAM, etc).
I wonder if all the people who bought new bikes because of COVID-19 boredom will continue riding them. If a fair number don't there may be a lot of seldom used bikes available soon at good prices.
I have a Canyon Endurace and a Canyon Neuron. They are great bikes and I recommend Canyons to friends all the time. I'm not a big fan of the Grail, theres not enough tire clearance for me, and I don't like the fit issues created by the Hoverbar.
I’ve been extremely happy with the direct purchase of my Lauf True Grit. I bought it over 3 years ago, and I have ridden it 18,000+ miles, including 2 DK 200’s. Every time I had a question, Lauf answered me immediately. I had one issue at about 10,000 miles and Lauf quickly handled it under warranty. Also, for maintenance beyond my skill level, my LBS has been great to take care of my needs
great bike, great people and a great company. I would absolutely buy direct again.
DTC is definitely a mixed bag. Framed is the only DTC brand I have bought from and I wouldn't buy from them again. It probably works out for most people, otherwise it wouldn't be a popular business model. It sure is nice having a shop handle issues for you or getting you the correct info before putting down a bunch of money though.
OBED is tied to a few different bike brands, so it seems like one of the better choices if you're going DTC and you are USA based. OBED probably has pretty good access to parts relative to some other DTC groups since they are also pumping out finished Quintana Roos and Litespeeds from the same building. The OBED is just the Carbonda 696 with a slightly different bottom bracket. Several companies are using that frame. However, if I were to buy any open mold frame it would be the 696. If I were to buy any gravel frame right now, it would be a Stigmata, Exploro Racemax or Hakka MX though. So great choices!
The Stigmata and Hakka are pretty high-end examples of frames. They are a little lighter and have shorter chainstays which may or may not be desirable. The Stigmata is 425 and the Hakka is 430 with the 696 being 435. I think they all have the same tire clearance. Santa Cruz prices keep creeping up though, so it's becoming a tougher sell. Our income took a hit last year, so I can't say I have really been keeping track of new bike prices though.
Bought a Canyon Inflite as my road/gravel bike. It is amazing, shockingly comfortable, highly agile, and faster than anything I've owned before. I never really found much of a difference between my bikes (other than feel), but this one is simply amazing. I was pretty excited when they started selling in the US.
My "trick" to buying a bike when I was not 100% sure which size fit me, was to wait until the end of my billing cycle for the my credit card, buy both sizes, try them out, and send the size that fit less back.
They have amazing customer service and lord knows, they pack a bike in a box much, much better than Raleigh! ;-)
Involuntarysoul wrote:Obed is just a rebrand Carbonda btw
This is true, but if you wanted to build out a Carbonda with the exact spec's of an OBED, you would be paying the almost same price as buying from OBED but you'll have to build it, own/buy all the tools, fix any frame/fork issues (which are discussed in the other thread), and have no warranty. OBED typically runs sales as well, and when they do, they are cheaper than a carbonda built bike unless you already have components or buy used components.
I know this because I looked at both Carbonda and OBED before going with Carbonda (I almost bought an OBED and then sold the drivetrain as take off parts but didn't want the PF BB). If you want a 696 with GRX and don't own the tools or any spare components, OBED is the manufacturer I'd buy from.
To answer the op's question, I won't even look at non DtC bikes now just because of price point. Now, if I was a new cyclist and didn't know my fit numbers and what I wanted out of a bike, then DtC is not the way to go. In that case, I suggest my friends go to a shop that specializes in fit and buy what they recommend. Buy something under $1200 and then sell it after a year for $600 when they know what they want out of a bike. At that point, they can look at DtC brands.
dangle wrote:DTC is definitely a mixed bag. Framed is the only DTC brand I have bought from and I wouldn't buy from them again.
Why’s that? I came close to pulling the trigger on a Gravier frame for $700, then watched the price go up $200 and said “nope”. You’re making me think I made a good choice!
I almost went with a Grail CF SL...but after having a hard time getting my Slate to fit me and very limited choice of wheel upgrades owing to Cannondale proprietary parts, I’m very leery of nonstandard stuff like the Canyon handlebar... and this is where the DTC model falls down. If I can’t touchy-feely the bike, I am skeptical.
Why’s that? I came close to pulling the trigger on a Gravier frame for $700, then watched the price go up $200 and said “nope”. You’re making me think I made a good choice!
The price shifting a bit here and there isn't any big deal on a full bike build. Parts are so hard to get right now that they make small changes here and there too and reflect that in the price.
Try reaching one of their customer service people. Not sales, customer service. If you can get an email responded to or a phone call answered before the system hangs up on you after 20 minutes of waiting you will do better than I did. If you're going frame only, there's a lot less to be wrong about though.
But why wouldn't you just go direct from carbonda at that point? The wait?
But why wouldn't you just go direct from carbonda at that point? The wait?
I seriously considered Carbonda. Then I finally decided on a Warbird and actually found one available...then I tried to find GRX parts.... At that point, I decided to ride my Slate for another season and try again next year.
dangle wrote: -snip- ... If I were to buy any gravel frame right now, it would be a Stigmata, Exploro Racemax or Hakka MX though. So great choices!
The Stigmata and Hakka are pretty high-end examples of frames. They are a little lighter and have shorter chainstays which may or may not be desirable... -snip-
Yup I so agree with everything you wrote. I've been unsuccessfully trying to find a Stigmata or Hakka MX in a 60 or 61 cm and a 2x drivetrain.
The Santa Cruze dealers all had the same story... All the 2021's have been allocated. They don't have a 60 coming in so I'll have to wait for the 2022's to come out.
There's a chance of getting a Hakka -BUT- Ibis doesn't have a 2x build so I'd have to find the parts. Ugh!
The one and only thing I don't like about the OBED is the BB. I'm just so done with press fit bottom brackets of any flavor. If I did get a PF BB I'd probably go ahead and get one of Wheels Manufacturing BB's that screw together.
NoCoGreg wrote:The one and only thing I don't like about the OBED is the BB. I'm just so done with press fit bottom brackets of any flavor. If I did get a PF BB I'd probably go ahead and get one of Wheels Manufacturing BB's that screw together.
I have never had an issue with press fit bottom brackets and I think I have had 6 bikes with them so far. I understand others have though. At least OBED uses a wider format which tends to be less troublesome. I wouldn't mind if it was lower and accommodated a wider axle.
I bought an Obed (Ocoee) about a year ago and it's been great. No issues, the only time I had to deal with customer service was a decal replacement and they were great. The bike was also put together really well out of the box.
I had no idea that Raleigh got out the gravel bike mfg until recently. Until visiting and reading on this forum and others and seeing what new in the gravel bike world after not doing much research for over a year +. They really had some nice gravel bikes and other type bikes. Stuntman, Roker, Tamland and Willard. I really liked the fit and the components. The Redux is one of my favorite bikes.
Like NoCoGreg , Zman and others , I also bought a bought a Raleigh. At the time the Raleigh dealer in Salem, Oregon did not stock any gravel type Raleigh . If I remember right , they were selling them cheaper then what the dealers paid for them on some models. I no that they pissed off a lot of LBS dealers with there direct great deals to consumers. It was very strange deal.
After first buying the endurance model Merit. Which I found out about on another bike forum. Almost sure it was $750 and it came with 105 10sp. Latter on I also bought the Tamland and than the lower price Roker.
This is over 5 years ago. But I first search the LBS for getting my next bike. I wanted to replace my old Giant TCR, nothing wrong with it, just old. And I wanted something less aggressive .So I went to a Giant dealer in my town , they also had two other shops in different towns in the area.
Also had the time and liked working on my own bicycles. So bought most on bicycles and parts online. I just do not ride , it is a hobby. Since then I found a few LBS that get my business, but now they out or low on stock. 🙁
So when looking for my next purchase I'm considering either buying DTC or LBS. Glad I'm in no hurry , such low or no stock on so many bicycles right now.
Poseidon and Polygon have some interesting gravel bikes. I'm looking at the Poseidon Redwood for $900 , but the short HT and low stack is holding me back for what size I would need. The reach is fine.
Also when the time comes and I want to sell my old bike and try something new.Marin Gextalt X, Specialized Diverge, Cannondale topstone , Warbird and the Fairdale Weekender Nomad are at top of my list now. due to change .
Right now I'm looking for either a Mt bike or hybrid type bicycle for my son. He likes the Fairdale Flyer and similar type bikes. They are sold out right now and same with the other places I looked at or called. Might just buy a small used hybrid , if I can find one.
So short answer. I'll buy either direct or LBS. I'll believe because of the bicycle and bike components shortage right now some of the small shops are going to close that do not do a lot of maintenance or have have two or more shops close to each other.
Add anyone own or thinking of buying a Poseidon Redwood? Looking at the L or XL sizes. They also have the X model. It kind of looks like a CX bike with a shorter WB. But would like to hear more feedback on the geometry and components.. etc
Also more edits coming. I have to not post so much when so very tired.
Another consumer direct brand I just saw the below review of the Chapter2 AO. The bike looks interesting but the company web site leaves a lot to be desired...
