New Gravel frameset choices???

Looking to buy a new gravel frameset to build up and I'm really struggling with the decision on which frame or bike to buy. A few are out of my initial budget but I might spend the extra $$$ if worth it in the long run. Below is my list of frames available that I'm considering but have absolutely no saddle time on any of them. 

1) Open WIDE - Light, massive tire clearance, ride quality is known to be supurb but expensive.
2) 3T Exploro Max (Race Max) - Beautiful bike, light, fast, limited to 42mm in 700c mode but fits 2.1's in 650b mode, expensive.
3) Stigmata CC - Looks to be a great dual purpose road/gravel rig that's light, fast, fits 700x45mm tires, and its a Santa Cruz! Only down side is the 2022 colors but its $700-$800 less than the Open or 3T framesets.
4) Lauf True Grit - Exceptional value for the money spent. I can get their weekend warrior complte build for less than the 3T or Open bare frames and it has front suspension. Only downside is I hear lots of users say the front is soft but the rear is really harsh. Also lacks in tire clearance with 700x42 being max (some say 45's fit no problem) and no wide 650b option due to frame design. Cool factor.
5) Rodeo Labs Traildonkey - This bike has a certain cool factor and checks a lot of boxes but its bare frame and fork weight is 2lbs more than each listed above.
 

I did have the OTSO Waheela C on my list but I ordered one and upon arrival recieved a bike that was previously built (by the shop I bought it from) and had some damage from assembly. I also wasn't fond of the carbon finish work that looked really rough under the paint. Otherwise that bike checks a lot of boxes for me but ride reports say front end is very harsh. Also had the Warbird, 2022 Checkpoint, Diverge, Topstone Carbon, Norco Search, Schafer, Exploro (original), and Revolt on my list but have since removed them after riding, lack of availablity, or simply not attracted to them.

Anything else I should consider out there in a lightweight carbon gravel bike with 45mm+ tire clearance? 

mtbnut87 wrote:I have a 2021 Warbird.  The only bike on that list that would turn my eye (and did for a bit) is that OPEN Wide.  However, keep in mind I've never ridden one, but I find it difficult to believe that it's $1200 better than the Warbird for my tastes.  Different strokes.

The Open is the one bike that I drool over every time I see it online but like you have never had the chance to throw a leg over one which does make it hard to shell out the extra cash to take a chance on it. 

I actually owned a 2021 Warbird and had it for about 6 months. It was a great bike but I always felt something was off when riding it. I fit between a 59 & 61cm so I always second guessed my decision to go with a 61cm. I also felt that the Salsa's class 5 vbration dampning seat stays were a bit to flexy and would cause the rear end of the bike to bounce on certain surfaces and especially under max effort pedalling. I also never warmed up to the baby blue color of the bike so there's that too. I bought the base model Apex 1 bike but almost instantly upgraded it to Ultegra/XT di2 and some Zipp 303s gravel wheels with a pair of 47mm Teraval Rutlands. Bike was light and fast.  

dvdslw45 wrote:

I also felt that the Salsa's class 5 vibration damping seat stays were a bit to flexy and would cause the rear end of the bike to bounce on certain surfaces and especially under max effort pedaling. I also never warmed up to the baby blue color of the bike so there's that too.

I TOTALLY get the flexy seat stay thing.  It was my biggest concern moving to this from a bike with a pretty stout rear triangle.  Turns out it's a love/hate thing.  This is my road/gravel bike.  On the road, I really notice it.  But the more I ride it on gravel, the more I like it and the seat stay flex allows me to stay seated more.

I built a frameset for all the reasons you pointed out. (Love the way the dust makes it looks like I have whitewalls. 😍)

I still have a wandering eye for that OPEN though...  

 

Best of luck on your journey.  I think finding the perfect gravel bike is more difficult than either an MTB or road bike because the list of requirements is longer.

mtbnut87 wrote:

I still have a wandering eye for that OPEN though...  

Best of luck on your journey.  I think finding the perfect gravel bike is more difficult than either an MTB or road bike because the list of requirements is longer.

I agree 100%, finding the perfect gravel bike is hard because almost every single bike you look at has one really good standout feature but that will usually come at a cost somewhere else. Its like you have to setlle for something. The Open has everything I want except price and a press fit BB. The press fit BB is not a deal breaker because I've owned a Cannondale with a BB30 and my bike mechanic knows how to install them to be creak free so I really just need to find one on sale somewhere!

dvdslw45 wrote:

 

 

I agree 100%, finding the perfect gravel bike is hard because almost every single bike you look at has one really good standout feature but that will usually come at a cost somewhere else. Its like you have to setlle for something. The Open has everything I want except price and a press fit BB. The press fit BB is not a deal breaker because I've owned a Cannondale with a BB30 and my bike mechanic knows how to install them to be creak free so I really just need to find one on sale somewhere!

JWB475 wrote:

This is the fIrst PF BB bike I have owned.  With the numerous thread together PF BB options that are out there are PF BB's still problematic? (I installed a Wheels MFG thread together BB in mine).  

I don't think its a problem at all, even using traditional press in bearings if done correctly. I've just been on so many forums or pages lately and a common theme is the absolute hate for press fit bottom brackets. 

gocyco wrote:I love my Carbonda 696. Very similar to the OPEN.  

They are the CF side of the Litespeed house.  They won't admit it outright, but I found a couple articles that said that the above is supplied to them and then finished in-house.  Not surprising really.  A ton of small mfgs do this.  I was *THIS* close to pulling the trigger on one of these and then found the Warbird in stock.  Hindsight I might have done it the other way.

This frame is less expensive than the Warbird (AND the OPEN by a fair bit) but compares more favorably to the OPEN than the Warbird.  Totally different philosophy.

BTW, it's less than half that, painted and shipped from Carbonda if you want to go that route.  I wanted a MFG in the States that could support me, and that is worth $ to me.

Angstrom wrote:Pivot Vault?

I ‘ve got a 1st-gen Niner RLT RDO. The current 2nd-gen has more tire clearance.  Don’t know if it’s competitive with your other choices.  Stack hight is higher than the more race-oriented frames.

Diverge?

Great options there but unfortunately the Niners are out of stock in my size (every other size is available), the Pivot Vault looked appealing until I found out it has some weird rubber isolation thingie for the seat post, and I didn't care for the fit  & feel of the Diverge.

desertdungarees wrote:Okay, so Dvdslw45, you have not mentioned geometry at all here.

The Lauf, Pivot (which someone else mentioned) have VERY aggressive geometry (if you've a long torso or are looking for an aggressive posture).

The gravel bike that has, by far, the best carbon layup and the best geometry is hands down the Exploro Racemax. It has the lowest BB drop, the shortest chainstays, a progressive front end, and a relatively relaxed reach: stack ratio. AND those short stays make it FAST. The tire clearance sucks, yes, but you can run great tires like Cinturato Ms, tubeless, with low tire pressure and need for nothing!

Any other frameset would be a mistake.

I really wanted the Exploro RaceMax but they have since sold out of my size so the search continues. That said, I have since removed the Open and Lauf from my search not only because of the aggressive fit like you mentioned but also because there's two common complaints about the Lauf, one that its way too harsh in the rear end to the point its jarring and also thet the fork has a pogo stick effect under hard efforts or out of saddle climbing. That might be why there's more of them in the used market than any other gravel bike right now. The Open has everything I want except price and the fact that the more I research it the more I hear about tickey problems with their carbon frames about finish issues and BB shells being out of spec. That brings me back to the Stigmata which is $800 less than the 3T and was my 1st choice and a company that I know will build a top notch frameset with a lifetime warranty as well. 

Thanks to a post above about open mold frames and how several companies out there use them I'm going to shy away from the smaller rebranding type bike retaillers like OTSO, OBED, etc...  So the Stigmata sits at the top of the list now and will probably be the winner but I aslo just found a few 2022 Giant Revolts out there in my size. The new Revolt interests me because they made the bike longer, lighter, and it has clearance for 700x50mm tires with a lifetime frame warranty. Only problem is Giant does not allow shipping of their bikes so I'd have to either drive 750 miles from Florida to DC to get one or fly and bring it on the plane or ship it myself once there. 

stu wrote:Does it really have o be carbon?  You could get a titanium frame built to your specs and it would probably last forever..

desertdungarees wrote:Exploro Racemax. Any other frameset would be a mistake.