dangle wrote:The HED Tomcat (called Flanders for MY2015, but still the same thing) are the OEM version of their Ardennes Plus. It's a strong (enough) rim and thick spokes connected to a somewhat low end hub. HED specifically says it's good for riders up to 250lbs. It's a pretty strong wheel. The rim is rated for road pressures too. It goes tubeless very easily. The stock tape won't work though. Stan's 25mm tape and the Specialized (Scotch 8896) 24mm tape both fit well. If you want to go road tubeless, 2 wraps of Stans or 3 wraps of Scotch is the ticket. Heck, do that amount no matter what to make going tubeless easier. The rim isn't built to the larger dimensions that a Stan's style rim is, so tires fit a little looser. An air compressor or a newer charger style pump is your best bet for inflating a tubeless tire. Don't bother with anything else. The stock Kenda Happy Mediums go tubeless just fine. The sidewalls will get a little leaky <1,000 miles though. Throwing some ground pepper and/or glitter in your sealant can help with that. TCS (UST specifications) tires don't go on those wheels super easy, but they inflate much easier than tires with looser beads.
The frame is thread, but stock bottom bracket is BB386 dimensions. That means in its stock form, it accepts a 30mm axle up to 86mm in width. You can take the FSA crank out and slip in ANY BB386 crank. A Rotor 3d+ would fit right in there. Since the frame is threaded, you can put any threaded bottom bracket in there and run whatever crank you want. If you want to run a Shimano crank, grab a $25 Shimano bottom bracket and install it. Then slip your Shimano crank in. Done deal. You can put a "BB386" bottom bracket on (almost) any threaded frame to run BB386 cranks.
.
Thanks for that info on the BB. Bit of confusion though. When you take out the FSA crank, what BB is there on the bike? Not a threaded one?
Why can't you use 21mm tape? The spoke hole size will be the same as in road rims right? I just got a 66 yard roll of 21mm.
Thanks for that info on the BB. Bit of confusion though. When you take out the FSA crank, what BB is there on the bike? Not a threaded one?
Why can't you use 21mm tape? The spoke hole size will be the same as in road rims right? I just got a 66 yard roll of 21mm.
I used 21 mm Stans - 2 layers. It worked very well on my stock Tomcat's. I've been riding regularly at 35/30 psi using 2 oz.of Orange Seal Endurnce sealant in each wheel. No leaks, no problems -- even on some pretty rough washed out dirt and gravel roads. Also, my tires hold their pressure for days.
fatcharlie wrote:Thanks Dangle, that verifies much of what I was thinking. I have only used a single wrap of Scotch 8896 tape on a couple of wheelsets, with no problems yet. Do you think I'm at risk of blowing it out at a spoke hole?
At low pressures, no. That tape is thinner than Stans, so if going to road pressures I feel 3 wraps of 8896 is about equal to 2 wraps of Stans. I know thickness doesn't determine strength, but I believe Specialized said the same thing and that's the exact same tape they use.
For other readers, it's also important to check for burrs and/or lightly file around spoke holes before putting in tubeless tape. The tiniest burr will get through one layer of tape before long.
Thanks for that info on the BB. Bit of confusion though. When you take out the FSA crank, what BB is there on the bike? Not a threaded one?
It's a threaded FSA bottom bracket. It's has an ID of ~30mm to fit cranks with 30mm axles. It's ~86mm wide when installed to fit 30mm cranks that are 86mm wide. Thus, BB386. You could take out that bottom bracket (it's a unique tool though) and put in whatever threaded bottom bracket you want if you don't want the FSA cranks. They are decent cranks though. Personally, I think they should have come with a 34 tooth small ring instead of a 36.
Why can't you use 21mm tape? The spoke hole size will be the same as in road rims right? I just got a 66 yard roll of 21mm.
Short answer: Andy Tetmeyer at HED said use 25mm Stans tape.
Longer answer: The goal isn't just to cover the spoke holes. Ideally you are covering as much of the rim bed as possible to prevent gaps, so using the widest tape possible can be a good idea. Having a gap between the edge of the tape and the bead of the tire will 1) allow sealant to get underneath the tape so your tape stops sticking, 2) come off the rim when installing/taking off tires because the edge keeps getting caught, and 3) look stupid. Okay, I made #3 up. You can use 21 or 25, but 25 is the better one for the job. I wouldn't rip up the 21 to put in 25 though. I would just put in 25 when the 21 eventually fails.
@fatcharlie - those hubs are a nice touch!! I've stuck with the stock HEDs and maxed out my speed on some decent sized hills and they feel pretty strong. I'm guessing yours must be hold a line very solidly.
I honestly don't feel very much difference in handling, I just built them up because of the stiff bearings in the cheap OEM hub and old prejudices against low spoke wheels. The HED Tomcat wheels will be used as back-ups and for winter road training, but I will get my money's worth out of them.
Thanks for all the great information here everyone.
\n
\nI'm considering swapping out my kenda happy mediums for some continental 4000s in 28c. First, will a 40mm presta stem length work if I stay with tubes, and second, if I want to go tubeless, will the continentals work?
\n
\nThanks!
dsutton01 wrote:Thanks for all the great information here everyone. I'm considering swapping out my kenda happy mediums for some continental 4000s in 28c. First, will a 40mm presta stem length work if I stay with tubes, and second, if I want to go tubeless, will the continentals work? Thanks!
IMO - the Conti's wont work tubeless. I believe you need a tubeless specific tire in that size. I would suggest using a 28 mm tubeless specific tire like a Hutchinson for tubeless high pressure. If you want to use the Conti's, I would suggest using Vittoria Latex tubes in the 25-28 mm. You'll be able to run lower pressure with the latex tubes and get a much smoother ride. I've been running a pair of 25 mm Conti 4000 II s with Vittoria latex on my road bike for almost a year, and several thousand miles, with no punctures. I run them at about 75/80 psi front/rear mostly on paved roads - but some dirt and gravel. Other than higher cost, the other disadvantages of latex is they lose air more rapidly than butyl, and are harder to patch if you need to. This means you have to pump your tires before each ride. Not a big deal for me, because I check my tires before each ride anyway. Also - I don't patch tubes anyway. Besides, if I get over a year on a set of tires and tubes, the replacement cost isn't an issue for me.
Thanks, I will look into the latex tubes. What about stem length with the stock Flanders rims? 40mm or do I need 60mm?
\n
\nI'd like to try tubeless but I feel like it's a lot of trouble given that I'm pretty much a weekend rider. Is it worth it? smoother ride and weight savings ?
\n
\n
dsutton01 wrote:Thanks, I will look into the latex tubes. What about stem length with the stock Flanders rims? 40mm or do I need 60mm? I'd like to try tubeless but I feel like it's a lot of trouble given that I'm pretty much a weekend rider. Is it worth it? smoother ride and weight savings ?
40mm will be fine. In my experience tubeless is best suited to wider tires at lower pressure. Narrower tires -28mm or less - require higher pressure, which in turn requires tubeless specific tires with stiffer side walls, and special tire beads to prevent them from blowing off the rim. Some even require special rim geometry to hold the tires from blowing off under pressure. As a consequence, tubeless road tires are stiff riding, hard to install, and not compatible with all rims - even with conversion kits. The main advantage of road tubeless is that with sealant installed they are very resistant to punctures - especially if you ride on rough pavement or in an area with a lot of urban trash debris on the road. Great for daily commuters for example. Tires like the happy mediums on your Haanjo, run at lower pressure - typically under 40 psi. You may even be able to run them tubeless with an appropriate conversion kit and sealant. I replaced my Happy Mediums with 40mm Maxxis Tubeless Ready Ramblers, Stans Tape, 40mm valve, and Orange Seal Endurance sealant (2 oz. per wheel). The conversion was easy and I've been running these on dirt and gravel roads for several hundred miles at 30/35 psi with no problems. If you want to go tubeless - do it with a fat tire. If you want to run a narrow higher pressure tire, then use a tube -- preferably latex, if you don't mind the expense and daily tire infation.
