Jamis Renegade Expert vs Raleigh Tamland 1

Ok since I am the newbie here I have a question on these 2 bikes. I bought the Raleigh Tamland 1 because I saw the Corporate discount over at bike Forums and did a lot of research over Easter weekend on gravel grinding bikes as this is a brand new sport to me. I know Ted Guitar here who I think started this forum helped Raleigh designed this bike. I kind of felt I couldn't go wrong with the Corporate discount price of $799 + $48(Retail was $1799) for either a starter bike or a med level bike I don't know which category if falls under. Right out of the gate the first time on the bike I climbed my local mt. about 7 miles from the house. On the road it runs sweet. Once I hit the mt. though I thought my heart was going to explode out of my chest and  consider myself a decent climber. For sure it doesn't climb like my Lemond Victoirre road bike. I have since put 12x36 gearing on it as some suggested here with the road link. I have yet had a chance to go out and try it out on the local mt again. It is a 56 cm frame and was listed as 24.5 lbs and probably is right as with my mt pedals on it weighed 25.1 lbs.

I now see a Jamis Renegade 2016 Expert for sale which is half of what it was new. I also see that the bike is listed at 21.25 and the carbon frame and 105 sure is very enticing to me. I think I will like gravel grinding and would like some comparisons between the 2 bikes and figure a difference of around 4 lbs in the bike total weight will be a big difference in the ultra rides. Are the geometry and frame set ups about the same as I like the frame set up or ride feel of the Raleigh Tamland? I might be spoiled though as my only other mt. bike before this was an el cheapo Schwinn Highlander. 


Thanks
Zman

Ok here are a few of my initial thoughts. 
1) Gravel climbing is definitely more about the engine, somewhat more about the tire setup, and less about the steel frame. The gnarlier the gravel the more that is true. On a road bike climb you don't have the road fighting back against you.

2) That being said the Expert will probably feel snappier in all situations, that's just the way carbon is.

3) The expert will sit a little higher in the front end than the Tamland, that can easily be remedied by lower the stem, so geo is a non factor.

4) You spoke of the extra 4 pounds and then mentioned ultra rides, I'm assuming that means endurance type rides. Weight matters much less in these situations. As the bikes get heavier when you start adding all the stuff you would need the 4 extra pounds becomes a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall weight. Also with endurance rides you're not pushing hard over and over like you would be with a race, it's a much more controlled effort. Weight matters less for this.

5) All that being said, if you're going to be constantly wishing you weren't on steel then get the Renegade, you won't regret it, it's an awesome bike. But if you want to spend less, get comparable performance, lose some rotational weight, then buy a set of American Classic MTB Races and install some fast rolling tubeless tires. I just did that yesterday and it changed the ride completely on my Tamland. I suggest being fairly picky on what tire you choose, pick the one that will be the best for what you seem to struggle at. For some that is pushing hard on flat, fast road so they need a fast rolling tire, for some it's getting tossed around by the gravel and descending, they need a wide plush tire that will smooth out the road and grip well in all conditions. If you're a good bike handler and want to climb better get a narrower, lighter tire set up tubeless at the correct PSI.

Thanks for the input. Here is the kicker. I am seeing the bike somewhere for $1200 which seems like a steal of a deal again. That is just about double what I would have in a new set of wheels. It's a 2016 model and the tires look new on it so it looks like it hasn't been ridden much. I am coming into the gravel grinding with absolutely no experience. My only off road bike I have is a heavier than a Rock Schwinn highlander mt. bike that has knobby tires on it. I would say right now I am not that good of a bike handler especially on descents as I had a major crash quit a few years ago while riding by myself(stupid) I tried riding in the expert course and tried jumping a tree and didn't pull the front wheel up and did an endo over the bike did a face plant and ended up with a concussion and barely made it off the top of the mt. which was a ski slope. I finally just slide down the ski lift trail. Since that time I haven't ridden in the mt. at all and just do some leaf peeper riding.  That being said you might have read my earlier post about getting hit by a drunk's mirror back in Jan. where he clipped my left side and because of that would enjoy riding on Roads Less Traveled hence the interest in gravel grinding/racing.

So when I say endurance rides I actually mean races like the DK200 and others. Since I haven't even had a chance to do my first gravel race I don't know what to expect. I had the Farmers Daughter lined up and then came down with a Nasty case of shingles the Thursday before the race. I am now recovering from that and don't care if I ever get that back. Getting ready to go out and try the new 12x36 gearing on my local mt. and will know more after that.

Thanks
Zman

Zurichman wrote:Thanks for the input. Here is the kicker. I am seeing the bike somewhere for $1200 which seems like a steal of a deal again. That is just about double what I would have in a new set of wheels. It's a 2016 model and the tires look new on it so it looks like it hasn't been ridden much. I am coming into the gravel grinding with absolutely no experience. My only off road bike I have is a heavier than a Rock Schwinn highlander mt. bike that has knobby tires on it. I would say right now I am not that good of a bike handler especially on descents as I had a major crash quit a few years ago while riding by myself(stupid) I tried riding in the expert course and tried jumping a tree and didn't pull the front wheel up and did an endo over the bike did a face plant and ended up with a concussion and barely made it off the top of the mt. which was a ski slope. I finally just slide down the ski lift trail. Since that time I haven't ridden in the mt. at all and just do some leaf peeper riding.  That being said you might have read my earlier post about getting hit by a drunk's mirror back in Jan. where he clipped my left side and because of that would enjoy riding on Roads Less Traveled hence the interest in gravel grinding/racing.

So when I say endurance rides I actually mean races like the DK200 and others. Since I haven't even had a chance to do my first gravel race I don't know what to expect. I had the Farmers Daughter lined up and then came down with a Nasty case of shingles the Thursday before the race. I am now recovering from that and don't care if I ever get that back. Getting ready to go out and try the new 12x36 gearing on my local mt. and will know more after that.

Thanks
Zman

Well here's the thing, and it may not be the fun advice, but the deals will always be out there. Since you're new to gravel why not just spend a season or two riding what you have and see where you are after that. There are PLENTY of steel bikes at DK and LandRun and all the other races.  I'm interested to see how you feel with the new gearing.

Thanks probably sound advice. Have you ridden any of these races or what gravel rides/races have you done. Looking at the results of the LandRun this year I don't think I would want to run/put my new bike thru that. I think I could handle the conditions. Could you PM me some specifics of the wheels you had built up so that might be something I could look at over the winter. I will give you a ride report later on today. There is a free gravel grinding ride down in VA. next weekend I plan on going to.

Zurichman wrote:Thanks probably sound advice. Have you ridden any of these races or what gravel rides/races have you done. Looking at the results of the LandRun this year I don't think I would want to run/put my new bike thru that. I think I could handle the conditions. Could you PM me some specifics of the wheels you had built up so that might be something I could look at over the winter. I will give you a ride report later on today. There is a free gravel grinding ride down in VA. next weekend I plan on going to.

I haven't done any of those races yet but I'm in the heart of LandRun (Stillwater, OK) so I see what people ride, what is preferred, etc etc. Yeah this year was nasty. Honestly, I'm glad I didn't spend a ton on a gravel bike right away. It's rough on bikes and I don't like worrying about it.
This is my wheelset: https://amclassic.com/index.php/wheels/29-race.html
set up tubeless with GravelKing 40mm which are closer to 42-43mm. Almost too wide on good road conditions, but perfect on loose conditions.

shoota wrote:

I haven't done any of those races yet but I'm in the heart of LandRun (Stillwater, OK) so I see what people ride, what is preferred, etc etc. Yeah this year was nasty. Honestly, I'm glad I didn't spend a ton on a gravel bike right away. It's rough on bikes and I don't like worrying about it.
This is my wheelset: https://amclassic.com/index.php/wheels/29-race.html
set up tubeless with GravelKing 40mm which are closer to 42-43mm. Almost too wide on good road conditions, but perfect on loose conditions.

Your were curious about how I liked the new gearing. I am stoked. My ride tonight consisted of about 5-7 miles until I reached the mt. With the new gearing I was cranking most of the road climbs in the lower outer ring at 9 - 9.5 or 10 mph. I cranked a few road hills in the small ring but not in the lowest granny gear. Once I reached the mt. the gearing worked awesome. I never really had to stand to get up and break tension from cranking something tuff. All I had to do was grind/crank/spin as to whatever you call it. I still had to stop a few times as I am grossly out of shape after being off the bike for a couple of weeks and just finishing sucking down Percocet for a week to take away the pain from the Shingles outbreak. The climb today in the mt. was 3 miles of an average of 7-8% 


I am pretty much satisfied with the bike but I need to work out a few bugs yet. When I left today the rear tire seemed flt. So I came back and pumped the back up to 60 lbs psi and the front to 50 lbs psi. Although it rode smooth on the road that was way too much pressure in the mt and it beat me up pretty bad on the downhill. The road was pretty much a  neglected mt. road that sees very light thru vehicle traffic. It has washboards/ruts and is hard packed with sandstone or limestone. What  pressure would most people run on that with my stock tires? Yes I seemed more confident with my bike after today's ride and just need to work a few bugs out now.

Thanks
Zman

Sounds like you're getting it worked out. If your tires are tubed then 50-60psi doesn't seem too off. On wednesday I had my tubeless GKs at 30psi and that was too low, especially on pavement. This morning I put them at 40psi and it was noticeably better on pavement and still really good on gravel. You just gotta keep playing around and trying things.

Zurichman wrote:

When I left today the rear tire seemed flt. So I came back and pumped the back up to 60 lbs psi and the front to 50 lbs psi. Although it rode smooth on the road that was way too much pressure in the mt and it beat me up pretty bad on the downhill. The road was pretty much a  neglected mt. road that sees very light thru vehicle traffic. It has washboards/ruts and is hard packed with sandstone or limestone. What  pressure would most people run on that with my stock tires? Yes I seemed more confident with my bike after today's ride and just need to work a few bugs out now.

Thanks
Zman

\n \nI would strongly reccommend running your tires tubeless and cutting the pressure in half. Seriously, I hardly ever go above 32psi.