So I just bought a pair of Surly Truck Stop bars and I love everything about them except ... the flare and width. They are 42 at the levers, which is my normal width and 48 at the end of the drops. They are way too long so when I cut them off it will probably be more like 46, but they still feel absurdly wide. So to those of you who like wide bars, what is the appeal? In all honesty, I've always despised wide bars. The first thing I did with old mtbs was to cut three or four inches off the bar. If the Truck Stops had the rise and a decent drop without the flare they would be perfect. I use the riser bars because I have bolt on aerobars that fit perfectly on the inner section, allow a better aero position and with the rise I get a more comfortable top and lever position.
Wide bars are about leverage and control. In the 90s I also used to cut down my bars to roughly the width of my shoulders because that was the thing everybody used to do. Long stems and short bars were a carry over from road bikes. Really, we didn't know any better. I recently resurrected a buddy's circa 2000 MTB with its stock bars and long stem and I was terrified riding it around the block. It has terrible handling. Now, on my MTB, I run 800mm bars with a 50mm stem. With this set up, I can corner much more effectively at high speeds.
On my gravel bike (2021 Specialized Diverge), I run Cow chippers in 46cm with a 70 mm stem. The bike came with 42cm Specialized something or other with a small flare and a 100 or 110mm stem (can't remember exactly). The difference in high speed handling from the drops is night and day. With the stock bars and stem, steep and fast off-camber fire road turns were downright treacherous, and I was constantly experiencing understeer on single track. I made the switch, and the bike now handles intuitively. The flare means I can lean it much deeper into fast speed turns and flick it around when riding single track.
I personally will never go back to short bars and long stems; though, since there are so many options for bar/stem combos, just buy what you like. The flare isn't for everybody!
Yeah, it is a personal preference thing. I like the handling with bars that are not too wide. If you are riding slow (ie. mtb) there is an argument for wider bars. But the human body is very adaptable to geometry - you'll get used to anything reasonable. Wide bars to tend to slow down the steering, so to counter act that, builders will often go for a shorter stem. But hey, my bike came with a short stem and reasonable sized bars with minimal flair - so anything is possible.
My bars are the width of my shoulders and 5cm more across the drops (in total - meanign 1" per side). Some flare makes it easier for me to get to the drops in a hurry. But I didn't like the big flare of the bars that came on the bike (advertised as 17 degrees as I recall). I didn't need so much and the tops were cramped. As to the width question more generally, I do agree with the previous poster. Control improves a lot if the bars are on the wider side, and I see no real downside on the road in my case. Bars are cheap, even if it's a pain to wrap new tape. I'd just experiment.
Shorter stem isn't to counter steering speed it's just to keep your upper body in the same place. Think about it, if your hands are now landing in a wider place, you'll have to bend over more to reach them. Shorter stem counters that.
edraven wrote:Shorter stem isn't to counter steering speed it's just to keep your upper body in the same place. Think about it, if your hands are now landing in a wider place, you'll have to bend over more to reach them. Shorter stem counters that.
The shorter stem absolutely changes the steering dynamic. If one experiences understeer, shortening the stem whilst leaving the bars at the same length will quicken the steering experience and thus mitigate understeer. Go too short with the stem and the bike will get twitchy and consistently oversteer. One should never use stem length as a primary fit adjustment. If you have to go more than 10-20 mm one way or the other, you probably bought the wrong sized bike.
Though as stated before, my preferences for bike handling tend towards the quick and snappy. I'm not interested in straight line riding, so the planted, super stable steering offered by the long stem/short bar combo does not appeal to me; what works for a more road oriented gravel rider will not work for me and vice-versa. The road-oriented gravel rider would probably feel that my set up is too touchy.
QUOTE username=edraven userid=7222976 postid=1322858789]Shorter stem isn't to counter steering speed it's just to keep your upper body in the same place. Think about it, if your hands are now landing in a wider place, you'll have to bend over more to reach them. Shorter stem counters that.[/QUOTE] .... ...if you had said “...isn’t only to counter steering speed, but also to keep your upper body in the same place” I’d have thought you were a jenius.
Alright guys, the original post was about wide bars feeling absurdly wide. I suspected he tried wide bars without changing his stem length, and my original comment was about that. Yes a shorter stem changes steering feel but in the context of switching to wider bars the purpose of the shorter stem is to counter the added width, not to change the steering.
I'm typically a roadie. Last year I owned only the one road bike (42cm bars). This year I bought a gravel bike and ordered the 42cm bars. Around that time I rented a fat bike and went for a couple of rides. The wide bars on the fat bike were of course uncommon to me, and I had pain during the ride and a couple days later (arms, shoulders, neck). The gravel bike bars, with the flair, were actually 1-2cm wider...I had similar pains. Maybe it takes getting used to, but so far I'm all about bars that fit my body. I don't ride technical terrain and don't need the leverage/control.
I have 52s on my Ti gravel bike and 44s on my carbon one. They're both pretty comfortable. The 52s are way less twitchy and have way better. The 44s are way more aero. I didnt change stems when I went from 46 to 52.
Wider bars are inherently more compliant than a narrower version of the same bar.
What timing as I search to get one of our gravel/all bikes as comfy as the other.
To start, wide is control but maybe something you're more aware of by riding style. I started a pump track and bike park at age 50 (soon to be 62) and all my young pals upped my riding skills at a late age.
With a Fargo we have wide drop bars and it makes a big difference with control but also comfort. In the past few years some sort of age problem is happening where my hand flesh can hurt a lot and the wide drop bars with flare help that.
My tip for understanding wide bars is improve your bike handling. Learn to ride neutral on pedals. If you know to carve skis, learn to ride a bike that way.
Now back to searching for bars LOL. I'm looking for the 115ish drop of Woodchippers, short reach, but maybe not as much flare. The Redshift review started here interests me.
This bias or preference is probably from not being a roadie unless I have to, and a gravel bike for me being a can do it all bike.
When I started reading about flared bars I thought "I've been riding standard drop bars for years. They're fine. What's the big deal?"
Then I got a bike with moderately flared bars(Easton AX) and realized that for descending bumpy stuff in the hooks, the flare really works for me. Rolling the elbows out does feel stronger and more stable.
I'm still not sure about the flare + wider idea, though. Most of my rides are mixed-surface, and on pavement it does feel like my arms are hanging way out in the breeze. I'm actually thinking about a slightly narrower set of the same flared bars.
As for width giving better control? Once my arms get splayed much beyond shoulder width I feel less in control. I come from the narrow bar(<600)/long stem MTB era, and the bar widths on modern mountain bikes feel all wrong to me.
Here is an interesting thing you can try if fit feels good, but steering feels a bit off after trying different bars/stems, it may not be for everyone, I didn't expect or even try it for this reason. Put a Cane Creek Viscoset in. My bike came with 46cm Easton EA70 AX bars which felt good but I wanted more flare and less reach, and less drop, so tried the Spank Flare 25 in 50cm. The bike came with an 80mm stem, which felt really good but I tried 60,70,80, and 90cm stems just to dial in fit which ended up at 80 with the 46cm bars. 60 felt way too twitchy and getting too upright, 90 started feeling like a cab forward bus. I threw in the viscoset to test out if it was something I liked the feel of, which I do very much. Interestingly, I can run either the 46 or 50 cm bars with any of the mentioned 60-90mm stems and the steering feel stays almost the same. I have ended up with either the 60 or 70mm stem with the wider bars (still testing and waiting for the ground to firm up to test on singletrack before settling on one). In fact I don't think I can actually dial in the proper fit for my weight balance on the bike with the viscoset in. It dampens the steering enough that it takes away almost any twitchiness, it feels smooth and controlled through a broader size range so to speak. So while I think the Viscoset is wonderful for what it does overall, I would suggest getting your fit close to dialed, then adding it.
This thread is very timely for me - I’m shopping for a bar for my new build! I’ve never owned a flared bar. My experience with them has been a quick ride on my wife’s Diverge...which is not a good barometer because her bars are freakishly narrow to me. (Because they fit her).
Angstrom wrote: Rolling the elbows out does feel stronger and more stable.
I spent a long time chasing neck and shoulder issues on my Slate, only to finally realize that my hoods were turned inward too much - turning my elbows out so that I was constantly “falling through” my arms. As soon as I rotated them out, my elbows came in and I was properly supporting myself. It is just this which makes me skeptical about flared bars for me.
Angstrom wrote: and the bar widths on modern mountain bikes feel all wrong to me.
I have a full width bar on my fatbike and every time I take it out of the house and bash the bars on every door frame, I say “I gotta cut this damned thing down!” ..but I’ve been saying this for about four years now. While it seems a bit bizarre to look at and push around, I don’t seem to notice it when I’m riding.
TwoWheeler wrote: I spent a long time chasing neck and shoulder issues on my Slate, only to finally realize that my hoods were turned inward too much - turning my elbows out so that I was constantly “falling through” my arms. As soon as I rotated them out, my elbows came in and I was properly supporting myself. It is just this which makes me skeptical about flared bars for me.
This sent me down to sit on my bike for a minute......
My hoods are straight fore and aft, and slightly angled in at the top because of the flare.
When I'm on the hoods, I don't notice the angle much. My elbows feel tucked in and solid.
When I'm in the hooks, the flare rolls my wrists in and my elbows out. To me this feels stronger for rough descents. It also feels less aerodynamic.
I'm not saying flare is better. It does seem to work for me and the way I ride. YMMV.
Angstrom wrote: I'm not saying flare is better. It does seem to work for me and the way I ride. YMMV.
As I said, I’ve not spent any time at all on flared bars. The hoods being tilted feel weird but tilted hoods may not have the same effect on me as rotated ones did. It’s kind of pivoting on a different axis.
It wasn’t until I realized that I was more comfortable in the drops, where my wrists were straighter - rotated so that my thumbs were facing up more - that I realized where the problem was. When I rotated the hoods out and away from each other it gave the same effect. It didn’t take much, either.
edraven wrote:Alright guys, the original post was about wide bars feeling absurdly wide. I suspected he tried wide bars without changing his stem length, and my original comment was about that.
I had not used wide bars until I bought a fat bike which had an appropriate stem. I rode it a couple of times and whether I just did not like it or 20 years of short bars kicked in, I quickly swapped out a longer stem and narrower bars. Voila. Loved it. For perspective, before the Truck Stop, I was using a road bar with cross levers. I descended with my hands about 10 inches apart on the tops. It was much more comfortable for me than either the drops or the hoods. With the Truck stop I could not reinstall the cross levers so I've tried descending on the hoods and though it feels less secure, it does not cause me any issues.
Hello you all. I am 67 soon to be 68 and I started riding about 2 years ago, mainly road but I am getting more inclined to do gravel roads. Just for Some background I've ridden motorcycles off road and completed both the Colorado and Utah BDR's (Back Country Discovery Routes) in 2018. Any hoot I just love this stuff. Any hoot, I am starting to do more gravel and have signed up to do the 40 mile Loudon County Gravel ride in June (I live out east in Annapolis MD, So it is a little harder to find stuff here. But I recently changed my bars on my 2018 Trek Cross Ripp 2. I am 6'-5" and 275 lbs so I am not svelte by any means actually on the threshold of what a bike can handle. I am not fat I am just I am just big I was a football player. But in getting more gravel oriented it is about being comfortable and yes having leverage. The Cross rip came with a 440 mm straight drop bar, 100 mm reach, 124 mm drop, 120 mm stem and a 8mm offset seat tube. It is a 61 cm frame so it is actually a little small . I probably should be a 63 for my dimensions. So I put on a 130 mm Stem and a 20 mm Setback for the seat tube for road work. which gives me the room I needed. But on gravel it just feels twitchy. Just like my off road motorcycle (KTM 790 Adv R) has wider bars.
So I just recently purchased a PNW Coast Bar which is 520 mm, 20 degree flared, 65 mm reach and 105 mm drop. I purchased with it a 100 mm Stem. Wrenched it on this Sunday and took it for a quick ride. Yes it makes you sit taller, yes there is definitely more control. Yes it is more comfortable changing from the horns to drops. Yes it give me the lateral width for my shoulder which I needed to correct anyway, Even in the road bike setup. At the shoulder joints I am 19.5" across or 495 mm. So the 440's were not doing me a favor.
So I need to come up with a bar for my road bike now, because it feels so much better. The only thing that is going to take a little getting use to is because are sitting higher and the bars are back you get the sense that if you jam the brakes you are going over the bars because you do not lean into them. It is more sensation than anything. Any hoot going wide with flares and shortening the stem is definitely the way to go for off road gravel work. Next to go to tubeless. I got my Trek Rim Strips yesterday should get ny valves and sealer today or tomorrow, then I can do that. I do have 40mm Maxis Ramblers which I am quite happy with. Ill keep you all posted on my exploits. My only regret I did not start riding bicycles years ago. I could still run then and I loved that .
I'm not saying flare is better. It does seem to work for me and the way I ride. YMMV.