Almanzo Announces "No More Racing" (sort of)

38 replies · 946 views

oleritter
364 posts
#1May 15, 2019, 5:51 AMedited

I wonder if there are folks here who might care to discuss.

First off, if you haven't yet, I suggest go here and read this: https://www.almanzo.com/

There has been a fair amount of discussion happening around this. Website was just launched a day or two ago with this "announcement" about this year's event.

Before I editorialize or interject my thoughts I'd like to see what other folks think.

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CrankShaft
55 posts
#2May 15, 2019, 6:28 AM
I did the event last year, and I signed up to do the event this year.

First, putting on an event like this is hard work. Especially a free event that had grown to considerable size. I respect that.

However... this year has been confusing, without a lot of communication. First was the move from Spring Valley. Things change - I get that, and I was looking forward to the ride in Northfield. Then I saw that there would be a new ride in Spring Valley on the same old Almanzo course (two weeks later than normal). Something happened there, but not my business.

Then, with days to go before the event, a new website was launched announcing some changes and the courses.

With regard to the course (for the 100), were there rest stops, or not? I get it is an unsupported ride (no longer a race), but riding 6, 7, 8 or more hours, it’s kind of important to know if there will be water available on course, or if we need to go off course and buy water.

However, the thing that bugs me is dropping the bib numbers and timing just a few days before the event. In the name of “inclusion and accessibility and community”? WTF? I thought THAT is what this ride was all about from the beginning. How exactly does dropping bibs promote inclusion? Does dropping the bibs change the ride? Well, probably not. But the bibs do provide a huge safety feature. In the event a rider does down, for any reason, the bib is a primary identifier for responders. That is why most event ask for emergency contact information at signup. Yeah, I know, be responsible for yourself, blah, blah, blah. But come on, in a ride this size, at least identify the riders in case of an emergency.

I know I’m coming across all negative, but from the outside, it appears the event had been somewhat out of control.
2
oleritter
364 posts
#3May 15, 2019, 6:38 AM
I agree, there wasn't a problem with inclusion, a problem that needed fixing. I didn't think of the bibs as a safety feature. Good point.
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bottles
3 posts
#4May 15, 2019, 6:59 AM
I just don't get the timing of the announcement. I'm still going, I'll still have fun, I'll still go hard, but I registered for a race. I like to race. I'm driving 6 hours one way to get to this ride. I could have stayed home to go on a ride with friends. I could have signed up for another race. I've already committed to go going to Minnesota for various reasons. If I had known this in advance however I could have made other plans.

Not a huge deal in the grand scheme but this info should have been released when registration opened. I'm sure the organizer would have had less grief about it. It's not like he didn't know beforehand. Numbers and timing would have had to been planned out well in advance of this week so at some point he decided to not order those things and said nothing.
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oleritter
364 posts
#5May 15, 2019, 7:08 AM
bottles wrote:I just don't get the timing of the announcement. I'm still going, I'll still have fun, I'll still go hard, but I registered for a race. I like to race. I'm driving 6 hours one way to get to this ride. I could have stayed home to go on a ride with friends. I could have signed up for another race. I've already committed to go going to Minnesota for various reasons. If I had known this in advance however I could have made other plans.

Not a huge deal in the grand scheme but this info should have been released when registration opened. I'm sure the organizer would have had less grief about it. It's not like he didn't know beforehand. Numbers and timing would have had to been planned out well in advance of this week so at some point he decided to not order those things and said nothing.

What do you think about what was said? How (my paraphrase) competition is divisive and exclusive, and doesn't promote camaraderie and community? That's the bone I'm picking at, not the bibs and timing. (but agreeing with you completely on all points)

You bring up a good point, that Almanzo the "race", has become well known enough to draw people from far away, and people like you who want to compete. I'm guessing that you might not make plans to come here again if there is another Almanzo. People can organize gravel group rides just about anywhere, and they do.
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Koyote
288 posts
#6May 15, 2019, 7:53 AM
I've got no vested interest - I've never ridden this event, and probably never will. But if people planned (travel, lodging, training plans, etc) based on the promise of a race, and then it was turned into a non-race, well, that's not too cool.

Besides, people will still race...There just won't be timing.
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Andysstrongale
6 posts
#7May 15, 2019, 10:06 AM
This is my first big event and I don't care much about the bibs or timing change, but the timing of the announcements threw everyone off. I think this should have been communicated a while ago. Even for being a free event it seems like there is a lot less organization and communication than there should be for the size of the event.

I understand his frustrations, I have volunteered for marathons and see the stress the directors go through. Sleepless nights and upset participants complaining about free t-shirts the day of is not uncommon. A lot of this could have been avoided though.

If I can make one suggestion to the organizer of the race it would be to look for volunteers to help form a board/committee. That way the work can be spread out, more organization, ideas can be vetted and issues can be avoided.

I'll still plan on attending, weather depending: storms are expected and I don't want to be hailed on or stuck by lightning.
0
jruhlen1980
53 posts
#8May 15, 2019, 11:23 AM
I've been watching from a distance, Almanzo has always been on my to-do list but I haven't made it there yet, I live far enough away to make it challenging.

I considered coming this year but I started to sense a weird vibe several months ago and decided to sit this one out.

I've seen a lot of things that are red flags but the bottom line is there are a lot of changes that should have been finalized MONTHS ago, and lack of communication and changing things at the 11th hour are all recipes for a complete clusterf*ck and a lot of pissed off riders.

I'll be interested to hear how it went. Hope I'm wrong and everyone has a good time.
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dangle
465 posts
#9May 15, 2019, 11:57 AM
1) Everybody is getting their money's worth. I can't imagine how difficult it is to put on an event like that.

2) I think the link summed it up well towards the end. I'll paste it below because I don't know how many people will actually read the link or read that far down.

"We don’t mention any of this to take away from the racing nature of cycling events. We definitely believe there is a time and place for this. Rather, we mention it because we’ve come to believe that this method, the very same method we’ve used for as long as we’ve been producing Almanzo, is exclusive and divisive.
Bib numbers pit us against each other.
Competition separates us.
Podiums highlight the few."

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dangle
465 posts
#10May 15, 2019, 11:59 AM
One of my favorite events of the year is the week after in Freeport, Illinois - The Ten Thousand. A wildly challenging course with no bib numbers, no timing, no results, and a lot of new friends. To me, that's the spirit of gravel riding. Luckily there's the freedom and flexibility for it to mean different things to different people or have enough flexibility in the genre to have different elements.
2
nellborg
142 posts
#11May 15, 2019, 12:27 PM
To me, it seems sort of like signing up for a 10k run and then finding out that it changed last minute to a Fun Run, or conversely, signing up for a Fun Run, and it changes last minute to a race with bibs and timing chips. I happily do both types of events, but the sudden change is bothersome - though I can't quite come up with the words for why that is. I suspect that had the organizer announced the change months ago, there'd be no issue at all with attendees and the event would have been a great success.

Free events like this are cool, but I I'd rather pay a reasonable fee to have water on the course and bib numbers, and maybe a snack station or a free beer afterwards.

"Inclusivity"??? (eyes rolling...)
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jruhlen1980
53 posts
#12May 15, 2019, 1:11 PM
dangle wrote:1) Everybody is getting their money's worth. I can't imagine how difficult it is to put on an event like that.

2) I think the link summed it up well towards the end. I'll paste it below because I don't know how many people will actually read the link or read that far down.

I read it. I don't agree with it. I can do both.
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oleritter
364 posts
#13May 15, 2019, 3:07 PMedited
I am anti anti-competition. This is where I'm puzzled. Bibs and numbers and podiums are a formality, and competition can exist without them.

What is strange to me is that it was felt that a statement had to be made that Almanzo is now officially not in favor of competition, and that competition brings negative outcomes and results. I disagree with that, and I'm disappointed the organizer, and thus the race has taken this position. Of course, all kinds of people and riders come with all kinds of motivations, but why single out the most fit and most competitive and in so many words say "if you want to race, you can race somewhere else."

When did competition become negative?
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Slim
300 posts
#14May 15, 2019, 4:16 PMedited
I do not agree with the “anti race statements” from the organizer.
I have done Almanzo and a few other ‘races’ and I have done no-drop organized group rides too.
Both are fun. On the no-drop rides, we’d wait up for people, we stopped for beer and pizza. We chatted as we rode.
On the ‘races’ I was so far down the finish rankings (below the middle) that I wasn’t feeling like ‘racing’ the people around me. But I raced myself. I pushed hard. Rode the drops a lot. No stops except for water I/O. We still chatted as we rode!

So for me, even the ‘races’ felt inclusive and welcoming. Many people signed up and do them as a casual ride, no one forcing them to race.
And there is more reward than just the podium. For most of us in these big events, we race ourselves, or maybe one friend or aquintance. I compare % back from the winner from year to year to see if I’m improving or not.
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#15May 15, 2019, 5:19 PMedited
Ok here is the only negative that I see "no water on the course" and I don't remember reading that. Don't know how remote this is but even though it's a free race and you sign a waiver wouldn't they be liable if they have no water on the course. I will kind of relate as to what I read to how I feel.

I came to gravel riding from the long distance roadie end. I will talk a little bit about randonneuring which to me would be about the same as grass roots gravel grinding riding/racing. It isn't a race though. Yeah some people ride fast to see what the best time they can ride. I will talk about 1200k rides which is the grand daddy of Randonneuring. The big ride this year is Paris Brest Paris and there probably will be 10,000 riders there. Basically a 1200k is 744 miles in under 90 hrs. You carry a control card that you have to get stamped about every 50 miles.

I will talk about 2 different 1200k's I did. The Cascades 1200k was a ride where it was encouraged everybody rode together and the rest stops were the same for everyone each night. If I remember right around 200-225 miles the 1st 3 days and then around 150 miles the last(4th day) If you didn't want to ride with the group you had to make your own hotel reservations and get your own support say if you wanted to ride thru the night and not stop at their rest stops. It made for a fun ride. Everybody got the same finisher's medal no matter what time you finished before the 90 hrs. or right before the 90 hr. cut off. They sometimes give out a special medal for the latern rouge the last person to finish before the cut off time.

I did another 1200k ride in Texas it was said that everybody was going to ride together when in fact it probably was a neutral roll out for the 1st 50 miles or so and then the fast guys were told to kick it in gear and everybody drafted off them as the first day was some mega miles. I didn't like the fact that I was lied to about everybody riding together and bonked big time as I got separated from them on a climb. .

Since it is a free ride not sure why people can complain about a free ride/race. You can still race if you want to. I did Farmer's Daughter in NY and it had no race numbers or finish times. I live in Pa and after riding Humphries gravel grinder @ Smithville Mo. this weekend I am jealous of all the great gravel riding they have in that area or anywhere in the Mid West or like this ride area . On the East Coast all but 2 rides only had 50/50 macadam/gravel.

Reading that article I felt like they were saying that they started out as a grass roots kind of ride and felt that they were getting away from that. They wanted people to ride together and have fun so the change was made. The no water on the course or some kind of support baffles me though. I might have to go back and read this again. How remote is this area? If a person is traveling from out of state how do they get support then? I did read thru again. Looks like there is water out there you just have to be more resourceful.

Zman
oleritter
364 posts
#16May 15, 2019, 5:20 PM
Slim wrote:I do not agree with the anti race statements.
I have done Almanzo and a few other ‘races’ and I have done no-drop organized group rides too.
Both are fun. On the no-drop rides, we’d wait up for people, we stopped for beer and pizza. We chatted as we rode.
On the ‘races’ I was so far down the finish rankings (below the middle) that I wasn’t feeling like ‘racing’ the people around me. But I raced myself. I pushed hard. Rode the drops a lot. No stops except for water I/O. We still chatted as we rode!

So for me, even the ‘races’ felt inclusive and welcoming. Many people signed up and do them as a casual ride, no one forcing them.
And there is more reward than just the podium.For most of us in these big events, we race ourselves, maybe one friend our aquintance. I compare %back from the winner from year to year to see if I’m improving or not.

I'm with you in how I ride and how I feel about these events. I like that they are a race, even though my finishing time nobody will ever notice. I like seeing that I'm in the top whatever percent.

I post rides on Strava. I have no KOM's but it's fun seeing how I do compared to people I know. I picked up a number 5 spot on a segment last weekend. It was wide open farm country with a big tailwind, but I killed it and took top spot from my friends. It's fun. That's all it is.

I also ride gravel events that aren't a "race". But I'm sad Almanzo is a race no more.
0
Andysstrongale
6 posts
#17May 16, 2019, 7:25 AM
Zurichman wrote:Ok here is the only negative that I see "no water on the course" and I don't remember reading that. Don't know how remote this is but even though it's a free race and you sign a waiver wouldn't they be liable if they have no water on the course. I will kind of relate as to what I read to how I feel.

I came to gravel riding from the long distance roadie end. I will talk a little bit about randonneuring which to me would be about the same as grass roots gravel grinding riding/racing. It isn't a race though. Yeah some people ride fast to see what the best time they can ride. I will talk about 1200k rides which is the grand daddy of Randonneuring. The big ride this year is Paris Brest Paris and there probably will be 10,000 riders there. Basically a 1200k is 744 miles in under 90 hrs. You carry a control card that you have to get stamped about every 50 miles.

I will talk about 2 different 1200k's I did. The Cascades 1200k was a ride where it was encouraged everybody rode together and the rest stops were the same for everyone each night. If I remember right around 200-225 miles the 1st 3 days and then around 150 miles the last(4th day) If you didn't want to ride with the group you had to make your own hotel reservations and get your own support say if you wanted to ride thru the night and not stop at their rest stops. It made for a fun ride. Everybody got the same finisher's medal no matter what time you finished before the 90 hrs. or right before the 90 hr. cut off. They sometimes give out a special medal for the latern rouge the last person to finish before the cut off time.

I did another 1200k ride in Texas it was said that everybody was going to ride together when in fact it probably was a neutral roll out for the 1st 50 miles or so and then the fast guys were told to kick it in gear and everybody drafted off them as the first day was some mega miles. I didn't like the fact that I was lied to about everybody riding together and bonked big time as I got separated from them on a climb. .

Since it is a free ride not sure why people can complain about a free ride/race. You can still race if you want to. I did Farmer's Daughter in NY and it had no race numbers or finish times. I live in Pa and after riding Humphries gravel grinder @ Smithville Mo. this weekend I am jealous of all the great gravel riding they have in that area or anywhere in the Mid West or like this ride area . On the East Coast all but 2 rides only had 50/50 macadam/gravel.

Reading that article I felt like they were saying that they started out as a grass roots kind of ride and felt that they were getting away from that. They wanted people to ride together and have fun so the change was made. The no water on the course or some kind of support baffles me though. I might have to go back and read this again. How remote is this area? If a person is traveling from out of state how do they get support then? I did read thru again. Looks like there is water out there you just have to be more resourceful.

Zman

Zman, even though it is a self supported race, I believe, in the past few years there have been a handful of water stations. This year nothing was mentioned till people started asking the week of. For most mid pack people I think they need those stations.

As far as remoteness, it starts in a town of about 20k people. As soon as you get outside of city limits its cornfields for miles. There are a few very small towns around (population of maybe 500). I think besides the water stops you will maybe see 2 gas stations/convenience stores. A store beyond that would be miles away.

Like I said what I think is throwing people off is just the late communication that should have been done a while ago.
Slim
300 posts
#18May 16, 2019, 9:51 AM
It is not remote country at all.(in gravel terms, it’s obviously not Manhattan). There are many houses and businesses you Spaß and even a town with services.(old course).

i
0
Slim
300 posts
#19May 16, 2019, 9:57 AM
To be clear, I am not opposed to the Almanzo being a non-race.(except for the fact that it was changed last minute). As mentioned, I have done non comtetive organised rides and they are great too.

What I am disagreeing with are the organizer’s statements about the negative aspects of having it be a gravel RACE.
I simply do not find it to be the case in these types of citizen endurance events (all sports, same in marathon running or XC skiing) that the competition format makes it less fun or less inclusive.

And my perspective is as someone who is most definatly way in the back
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GHC
169 posts
#20May 16, 2019, 10:22 AMedited
imo

1) Timing of reset expectations is an issue. (Yes, organizers have a lot of headaches)

2) Stated reason for change is way too touchy feely for my taste....to the point of being lame and nonsensical in my world, and I typically find myself in the back of the pack at large events.

(Pure speculation, but am guessing behind the scenes issues the organizer got tired of dealing with forced the hand .... as in, the overwhelming majority of riders in the event were fine with status quo, other links in the chain that need to be aligned to put on any event (particularly no entry fee ones) were not. For this reason (in my mind), I will not attack the organizer more than I am in this post for the lame (imo) stated reasoning)

3) There will still be racing. The select few that actually have a shot at the invisible podium will know who won, and word will spread to those who care. All riders who own a watch or cell phone will know their own times, and will have a general sense of how they stacked up. All riders who are interested in passing as many riders as they can (and I have no issue with that), can still proceed with their plan. You can be somewhat sure the "If it's not on strava it didn't happen" types will get something going on that platform or similar (will likely be the stop gap solution for racers this year). Almonzo provided final results for the field are toast though, and for racers I get the angst regarding the late notice.

4) Someone mentioned water. The water spots are listed in the FAQ section. If this information is not generally accurate, than it's a communication issue that needs to be fixed. If it is generally accurate, I don't see any water related issue. I'm assuming it's generally accurate, as most would.

https://www.almanzo.com/faq

Bottom line, my ride is what I make it .... absolutely none of this would stop me from having a good time/fun if I chose to ride it. I have no shot at any podium, while wishing those that do all the best. I compete against myself for the most part, enjoy giving it my best, enjoy suffering with others doing the same, and seeing how I generally stacked up with everyone on that day. Striving to get or do better is competition, competition is a good thing in my world. I have no qualms about acknowledging there are a few healthy competitors I intend to beat when I see they registered, they motivate me to prepare. Cat and mouse game will continue, bibs/timers or none lol. The reason folks are out there differ, I hope everyone has a good time/achieves their goal....and it's up to the individual to make their "good time" happen while following the golden rule.

Ultimately, we are all free to choose what type of event we want to ride in, plenty of options these days.

Back to where I started, the timing of reset expectations stinks.

I think the stated reasoning for the reset is lame, others may disagree. Oh well.

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