Dirty Kanza 2020

I started the "who got in" thread, and thought it might be useful to start another general one in which all sorts of relevant questions might be asked.  If folks think it is just cluttering things, I'll gladly delete or ask mods to.

Regarding accommodations, yeah, slim pickings.   I managed to secure a hotel room in Emporia for the Saturday night, but can't find anything for Friday.   On another forum the contact info for the individual in charge of camping and RV spots at Lyons County Fairgrounds was provided.  I contacted him and he put me down for a tent spot for a couple of nights.   I'd much prefer a hotel, of course, but I'd also like to be in Emporia and not have to drive for an hour from Topeka or somewhere the day of the race.  His phone number is 620-343-5347.   He was very helpful.  

Given that this isn't a "regular" campground, do you know if there will be any amenities? I assume port-a-johns, but what about water and showers?

I was told there would be portapotties and showers.  But obviously I can't vouch for this.  I am really only using this as a last option - would much prefer a hotel room

hyrdation vest or frame bag with hydration bladder? pros and cons.  My initial thought is my my 2L hydation vest and two bottles on the bike.

Train now, figure out which one works best for you.  I personally don't like extra weight on my body ( I already have enough of that ), but you gotta do what is best for you.

I think I'll be going with vest and bottles.  Not a huge fan of camelbaks (though designs have improved in recent years), but I think good nutrition and hydration are probably going to be the biggest factors in a successful day for me

daustin wrote:hyrdation vest or frame bag with hydration bladder? pros and cons.  My initial thought is my my 2L hydation vest and two bottles on the bike.

That's the setup I settled on after several configurations. I go with drink mix in the hydration pack (I like the orange mud endurance pack) and water in the bottles. A little gas tank bag on the top tube for food and some extra food in the should strap pockets and jersey pockets, refill at the checkpoints and I had more than enough for each segment. 

daustin wrote:hyrdation vest or frame bag with hydration bladder? pros and cons.  My initial thought is my my 2L hydation vest and two bottles on the bike.

You can do some simple math to determine hydration needs. A few fixed parameters:
-It's typically 45-55° at the start and hovers at 80-95° during the race. Even when it's wet and muddy, it's in the 70's.
- Aid stations were traditionally around 50, 100, 150 mile marks. Last year there was a water stop around mile 64, Aid station #1 around 100 and aid station #2 at mile 150. So only two spots for drop bags/refueling.
- If you are hauling ass, above 18mph, that's still ~4 hrs in 90° heat to the first water stop. Two bottles will last you maybe 1.5 hrs in that heat. 
- If you are rolling a more reasonable pace of say 14-16mph, those water stop intervals can stretch to ~5hrs.

I run a 100 oz pack with 2x 26oz bottles. That's enough for this 160 lb rider to make it between aid stations in 90°+ temps and I average 17-18mph. Keep in mind, DK is unsupported. There are no neutral support vehicles, no mini-marts/gas stations and precious few houses to bum a bottle full of garden hose water. For those that suggest doing the 200 without a hydration back, DO NOT plan on getting more water on the course between aid stations. 

I think your plan for the vest and two bottles is perfect. DK means maybe being a bit overprepared. Like two tubes on the bike and one in each drop bag, kind of thinking. The pros can afford to run a bit lighter, but not much. They might have an entire second and third hydration back already filled with cold water and all the spares. Faster to just swap backs than refill. Spare wheels, pro mechanic and bike stand, stuff like that.

jruhlen1980 wrote:

That's the setup I settled on after several configurations. I go with drink mix in the hydration pack (I like the orange mud endurance pack) and water in the bottles. A little gas tank bag on the top tube for food and some extra food in the should strap pockets and jersey pockets, refill at the checkpoints and I had more than enough for each segment. 

yep. I have the same orange mud pack. I have used it for 100 mile gravel events so should be good. So I’ll have to practice my full setup. 

Emilio700 wrote:
You can do some simple math to determine hydration needs. A few fixed parameters:
-It's typically 45-55° at the start and hovers at 80-95° during the race. Even when it's wet and muddy, it's in the 70's.
- Aid stations were traditionally around 50, 100, 150 mile marks. Last year there was a water stop around mile 64, Aid station #1 around 100 and aid station #2 at mile 150. So only two spots for drop bags/refueling.
- If you are hauling ass, above 18mph, that's still ~4 hrs in 90° heat to the first water stop. Two bottles will last you maybe 1.5 hrs in that heat. 
- If you are rolling a more reasonable pace of say 14-16mph, those water stop intervals can stretch to ~5hrs.

I run a 100 oz pack with 2x 26oz bottles. That's enough for this 160 lb rider to make it between aid stations in 90°+ temps and I average 17-18mph. Keep in mind, DK is unsupported. There are no neutral support vehicles, no mini-marts/gas stations and precious few houses to bum a bottle full of garden hose water. For those that suggest doing the 200 without a hydration back, DO NOT plan on getting more water on the course between aid stations. 

I think your plan for the vest and two bottles is perfect. DK means maybe being a bit overprepared. Like two tubes on the bike and one in each drop bag, kind of thinking. The pros can afford to run a bit lighter, but not much. They might have an entire second and third hydration back already filled with cold water and all the spares. Faster to just swap backs than refill. Spare wheels, pro mechanic and bike stand, stuff like that.

thanks for the advice. I’ll just be looking to finish the event. But definitely planning to carry 2 extra tubes, tire boot, co2, mini pump, spare derailleur hanger, quick link, tire plug. Will need to sort out my exact nutrition strategy. But still some time to practice all these things

What is the humidity like? I can deal with heat, but I live in a desert

shiggy wrote:What is the humidity like? I can deal with heat, but I live in a desert

Med high, not terrible. There are weather almanacs you can find on Google to see what the typical humidity is. Humidity means your sweat is not as effective at cooling you as it is in dryer weather. 

@shiggy I am from Utah - super dry. Last year I rode the 100 and humidity was not fun for me. I would say the heat/humidity combo was the most miserable part. If you are from Utah/Nev/AZ, don't take too much stock into people saying it is just moderately humid. Most people come from relatively humid places so their point of reference is skewed compared to us desert dwellers. 

The real question is what do you do about the humidity. Well I for sure am going to pack more water. Last year I had a 2L pack plus 2L on the bike. I am going to have to carry more this year. I was so dehydrated. 

I think the primary problem from the higher humidity is less effective evaporative cooling  which leads to higher HR and higher core temperature.  So, maybe backing off on intensity a bit for the first 100 miles would be the best way to go.  

Over-hydrating can be as dangerous as under-hydrating - which makes generalizing on a specific hydration strategy somewhat difficult to do.

nellborg wrote:I think the primary problem from the higher humidity is less effective evaporative cooling  which leads to higher HR and higher core temperature.  So, maybe backing off on intensity a bit for the first 100 miles would be the best way to go.  

Over-hydrating can be as dangerous as under-hydrating - which makes generalizing on a specific hydration strategy somewhat difficult to do.

True but overhydrating is really hard to do in those conditions. An athlete is more likely to just have to stop and pee a lot. Greater risk is hyponatremia (not enough electrolytes) but even that is alleviated with just modest electrolyte intake. I take roughly one Hammer Fizz electrolyte tab per hour for DK when its warm. Just drop in a regular tall bottle.

Griffthemaster wrote:@shiggy I am from Utah - super dry. Last year I rode the 100 and humidity was not fun for me. I would say the heat/humidity combo was the most miserable part. If you are from Utah/Nev/AZ, don't take too much stock into people saying it is just moderately humid. Most people come from relatively humid places so their point of reference is skewed compared to us desert dwellers. 

The real question is what do you do about the humidity. Well I for sure am going to pack more water. Last year I had a 2L pack plus 2L on the bike. I am going to have to carry more this year. I was so dehydrated. 

that is a lot of water but  I know everybody is different.  even in hot weather I barely average a bottle an hour

Emilio700 wrote:
Med high, not terrible. There are weather almanacs you can find on Google to see what the typical humidity is. Humidity means your sweat is not as effective at cooling you as it is in dryer weather. 

records show 1june19 for Emporia: high 89*, 45-60% humidity 

I am use to 90-100*, 20%.

40% is high and only when I am passing agricultural sprinklers 

In 2018 I used a frame bag with a blander and hose, plus 3 bottles.  That setup worked for 50-60 mile segments that year, but my bike felt like a tank.  

In 2019 I used a 1.5 liter (50 oz) Camelbak Chase vest, and three 33 oz zefal bottles.  I have used other, larger vests in the past, but the Chase vest is a game changer.  I put straight water in the vest and one bottle, and GU mix in two bottles.  I really like this setup.  I barely notice the Chase vest, but it very easy to sip constantly. That said, it was so hot and humid last year, I'm not certain the 150 oz. would have gotten me safely from checkpoint 1 to the neutral water stop at 120.  Thankfully, EF Education has a surprise water stop that saved the day for a lot of people.  I hope they are back again this year.   

Also, it may have been mentioned, but replace your bottles with clean bottles at each checkpoint.  Or thoroughly clean the bottles at each check point.  Being cattle country, that isn't necessarily mud on the lids of you bottles.  

Is the chase vest that much better than a regular camelbak?   Does it sit better on the back etc?  I'd be willing to buy one if I thought that it was a significant improvement.

CrankShaft wrote:In 2018 I used a frame bag with a blander and hose, plus 3 bottles.  That setup worked for 50-60 mile segments that year, but my bike felt like a tank.  

In 2019 I used a 1.5 liter (50 oz) Camelbak Chase vest, and three 33 oz zefal bottles.  I have used other, larger vests in the past, but the Chase vest is a game changer.  I put straight water in the vest and one bottle, and GU mix in two bottles.  I really like this setup.  I barely notice the Chase vest, but it very easy to sip constantly. That said, it was so hot and humid last year, I'm not certain the 150 oz. would have gotten me safely from checkpoint 1 to the neutral water stop at 120.  Thankfully, EF Education has a surprise water stop that saved the day for a lot of people.  I hope they are back again this year.   

Also, it may have been mentioned, but replace your bottles with clean bottles at each checkpoint.  Or thoroughly clean the bottles at each check point.  Being cattle country, that isn't necessarily mud on the lids of you bottles.  

chunkylover53 wrote:
Is the chase vest that much better than a regular camelbak?   Does it sit better on the back etc?  I'd be willing to buy one if I thought that it was a significant improvement.

The chase vest sits higher on the back, which turned out to be great.  

My previous vests were the Osprey Vipers, which run down the back to the hips. it seemed logical to move the weight of the water lower on the back.  For me, the Chase vest proved that wrong.  Moving the water higher made the weight of it disappear.   I used to get a sore back after 3 or 4 hours, but now that I am riding the Chase vest, I don't even notice it.  Some of that may well be that I moved from 2.5-3.0 liters of water down to 1.5 liters of water on my back, but 1.5 liters = two bottles, and that is good enough for me (plus the bottles on the bike).

The other really nice advantage to having the vest sit higher is that you now have unrestricted access to your rear jersey pockets. It was always frustrating to try to get something out of, or into my jersey pockets with the vest and straps in the way.  

The Chase vest also has lots of pockets front and rear.  I usually carry my phone in the rear upper zipped pocket, a small rain jacket in the larger unzipped pocket, and things like 1.5 oz chain oil, small rag, etc. in the lower rear pockets.  

Also, since it sits higher, there is no annoying waist strap, and vest does not sway.

And no, I do not work for Camelback, and I am not sponsored by them.  However, they are welcome to DM me if they want more exposure in the middle of the pack :-)