Is gravel riding going commercial?

With more and more promoters, sponsors, manufacturers, and media paying attention to the gravel scene, will success spoil the home grown fun of the sport?  I see some worrisome signs. This from Velopress: http://www.velonews.com/2018/03/news/the-dirt-kabush-open-to-dirty-kanza-zabriskie-gravel-camp-snowgravelmaple_461590
Perhaps growth and recognition is a good thing -- brings better products like improved bikes and tires -- more events and ride opportunities; but it can also have a dark side -- higher entry fees, PED's, more expensive bikes and components. I've seen it before in other endurance sports, that start out as a bunch of pioneers having fun, which then turn into mega events and big time commercial enterprises. Is "Gravels" time to shine; or to corrupted? Your thoughts? 

Yes, it seems companies are moving their marketing dollars over to gravel and away from cyclocross.  Just look at the pro cyclocross athletes who are losing their sponsorship this year.

So many companies are focused/ invested in gravel, endurance, bikepacking products, I am sure we will see more commercialism in the sport.

Listen to this interview with Amanda "Panda" Nauman, who goes into the issue.
https://www.cxmagazine.com/amanda-panda-nauman-interview-gravel-cyclocross-dirty-kanza-land-run

The PED mention kind of struck a chord with me. Every endurance sport is tainted by it, pro and amateur alike. Even though I haven't lived in MN for 8 years I still keep close tabs on the races I used to frequent and see some names crowding many of the podiums these days that were troublemakers when I used to race road. When I was a Cat III I used the same massage therapist as one of them and was also offered PED's. I refused but became really depressed that I was wasting my time chasing around dopers at the local races. That was my last season. Couple of these guys were racing at a national level too and their careers ended suddenly when they were popped for EPO. Did they totally eliminate doping from their training when they took up gravel racing?... I'd like to believe that, but highly unlikely. I think it's a safe bet that some people are doping for the big events like DK, Almanzo, etc.. and have been for years.

As far as getting too commercial or mainstream, it was bound to happen. Participation rates at gravel events skyrocketed in the last decade. More catered gravel camps for the 1%, entry fees will keep rising, and we'll be inundated with more gravelized tech whether real or bandwagon. The shark has to keep swimming or it dies.

ridemagnetic I guess I must be the naive one here but what is the pay outs for say the DK200 and other races like that for winning. I guess as those type of races get more sponsors and more pay outs you probably will see more of that.

As a whole or a group the way to stop some of this is to refuse to go/buy into some of those races. Coming from the roadie end there is a kind of local ride here that I have never done. It's the Seagull Century in Salisbury Md. I think the entrance fee is something like $100 or something like that to do a flatter than a pancake ride/race. For me until when I get into my 70's - 80's and can no longer climb probably a ride I will never do.

On the gravel end riding/racing now I won't say I will never do the DK200 but at my end right now I refuse to pay for a gravel ride/race that has over $70 as an entrance fee. If everybody kind of did that or refuse to go to the higher paid ride/races the fees wouldn't keep going up would be my guess. I doubt that will happen though because Americans are too trendy and want to brag how they did this or that ride/race and the promoters are more than glad to take their money. At the other end if I know that is a charity event ride and I know that the money is going directly to that I probably would spring for that. I did the 24 hrs. of Booty road ride where you had to raise $200 to do the ride and I was ok with that.

I am not a podium rider/racer unless at some point I place in the old geezer age group but if I was an elite Rider I probably would have a problem riding around riders that was drugging. Do you think gravel riding will ever do testing? Just some of my thoughts but if we support some of the what I call grass root rides/races and refuse to go to the high paying ones we might be able to make an impact.


Zman

It's not about any prize money. People dope for free races with little or no prizes to speak of. There's also a contingent that dopes chasing Strava segments. 

One thing I don't understand though; ever since you've been on this forum every so often you'll make some sideways comment about "Americans" being this or that. You think being trendy and braggadocious is exclusive to these borders? What's with the Nationality bias?


 

ridemagnetic wrote:It's not about any prize money. People dope for free races with little or no prizes to speak of. There's also a contingent that dopes chasing Strava segments. 

One thing I don't understand though; ever since you've been on this forum every so often you'll make some sideways comment about "Americans" being this or that. You think being trendy and braggadocious is exclusive to these borders? What's with the Nationality bias?


 

ridemagnetic i don't live in another country so i really don't know how trendy they are. i have read that japan can be that. after being around some riders from solvenia last year where the average worker only makes around $500 - $600 a month i would doubt that not too many there rides $5000 - $6000 bikes to save a few ounces on the bike. we can disagree on this but imho americans want it quick/instant and right now. i would include myself in this sometimes.

zman

Zurichman wrote:ridemagnetic I guess I must be the naive one here but what is the pay outs for say the DK200 and other races like that for winning. I guess as those type of races get more sponsors and more pay outs you probably will see more of that.

As a whole or a group the way to stop some of this is to refuse to go/buy into some of those races. Coming from the roadie end there is a kind of local ride here that I have never done. It's the Seagull Century in Salisbury Md. I think the entrance fee is something like $100 or something like that to do a flatter than a pancake ride/race. For me until when I get into my 70's - 80's and can no longer climb probably a ride I will never do.

On the gravel end riding/racing now I won't say I will never do the DK200 but at my end right now I refuse to pay for a gravel ride/race that has over $70 as an entrance fee. If everybody kind of did that or refuse to go to the higher paid ride/races the fees wouldn't keep going up would be my guess. I doubt that will happen though because Americans are too trendy and want to brag how they did this or that ride/race and the promoters are more than glad to take their money. At the other end if I know that is a charity event ride and I know that the money is going directly to that I probably would spring for that. I did the 24 hrs. of Booty road ride where you had to raise $200 to do the ride and I was ok with that.

I am not a podium rider/racer unless at some point I place in the old geezer age group but if I was an elite Rider I probably would have a problem riding around riders that was drugging. Do you think gravel riding will ever do testing? Just some of my thoughts but if we support some of the what I call grass root rides/races and refuse to go to the high paying ones we might be able to make an impact.


Zman

One quick note, the Seagull Century isn't a race- it's a fund raiser for scholarship's and grants to Salisbury University . My wife and I have done it several times on our tandem. While it is a basically flat course, the ride can be very difficult because of the frequent windy conditions on the Delmarva peninsula which skirts the Atlantic barrier islands of Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia (hence the name Del-Mar-Va). The volunteers provide great support and food at rest stations every 25 miles on the route. The ice-cream at the 75 mile rest stop is especially popular. You'll see every type of bike and trike at the event - and every type of rider. Fun event. You ought to try it sometime. You can ride your gravel bike with knobby tires as a handicap however, if you think it's too easy. http://seagullcentury.org

bobknh wrote:
One quick note, the Seagull Century isn't a race- it's a fund raiser for scholarship's and grants to Salisbury University . My wife and I have done it several times on our tandem. While it is a basically flat course, the ride can be very difficult because of the frequent windy conditions on the Delmarva peninsula which skirts the Atlantic barrier islands of Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia (hence the name Del-Mar-Va). The volunteers provide great support and food at rest stations every 25 miles on the route. The ice-cream at the 75 mile rest stop is especially popular. You'll see every type of bike and trike at the event - and every type of rider. Fun event. You ought to try it sometime. You can ride your gravel bike with knobby tires as a handicap however, if you think it's too easy. http://seagullcentury.org

bobknh i understand where you are coming from. at my end i also belong to bikejournal.com where we track our edington number. it's the number of rides that you have done at a certain distance. i have done 100 100 milers that i can account for probably more before i joined bj. i still want to do all the tough rides on the east coast first that i  haven't done first like 3 states 3 mts and a few others. the 2 hardest i have done so far has been the highlander tour in the finger lakes ny and the assault on mt mitchell. i thought you lived in vermont if you like the seagull you should do some of the hanover cyclists rides horse farm tour in the spring and the labor day century where they have lots of ice cream at the finish. lancaster's bicycle club's covered bridge ride is pretty sweet also. caps aren't working here at my end.

sorry to have taken this thread off topic i will quit this type of discussion on your thread bobkh


zman

I think you guys have been Lance-Tranced way too long. The fact that some real $ have to be paid to stage these events ( yea try and host one for free, on public roads, and make a buck) and the implied use of PEDs are just too far removed from each other! \nI've been lucky enough to share a few events and aftermaths with, Niel Shirley, Ned Overend, Alison Tetrick, Yuri Hauswald, Dave Z, all multi-time winners of several events, and the PED thing is about as for removed from these guys as a clean National Election! \nAre there a few losers in there that have popped a pill, or are on the program? Sure, there's one in every ride. Has it stopped you from getting your podium or your hard-earned money's worth? \nNot a chance. \nThese rides and routes are open to us all, most the time, for free. Support the ones that are turned into events that you like to spend money on, or don't. Ride your bike where and how it turns you on. Enjoy the ride!

I was involved in the triathlon scene in the early nineties and have watched that sport grow and grow over the years. Triathletes have always embraced new technology and are a manufacturer's dream in respect of the fact that they are quick to pay premium prices for products. In fact I can usually spot a triathlete somewhere as they are usually the swimmer or cyclist using the unnecessary paraphernalia - yep, the marketing people have suckered another triathlete into buying their "must have" products. \n \nI've not been involved in triathlon for some years and now consider myself as a cyclist through and through. I don't want to be involved in modern day triathlon as it has changed in a commercial sense. Now it is slick, modern and....very expensive. But the good point is that it is a popular mass participation sport and it gets people off the sofa and out doing some exercise. \n \nThe more popular gravel becomes, the more expensive everything will become. Events that you remember being promoted by a small operation charging reasonable entry fees will morph into money guzzling promotions adding to a company's bank account. People are realising that there's money to be made here. \n \nSo, my advice is enjoy your riding as there's no knowing if our minority sport will grow into a money gobbling beast. \n \n

The answer is simple, if you don't like the cost and commercialism of an event, don't ride it. There are plenty of smaller, local events that are fun to ride and plenty challenging, without all of the hype and cost. Personally, I couldn't care less about racing gravel events; I ride them because they're fun and challenging, particularly here in New England where the courses tend to be full of very steep hills (10-15+% grades). I'm picky about the rides I do. Some around here are reasonably priced, lots of fun and offer great support (the Muddy Onion is a favorite). I've seen others advertised that are expensive and seem to offer little more than a cue sheet. There are yet others that are expensive, but offer lots of options, excellent support and the proceeds go to great causes (D2R2). Some are even free, yet offer a surprising level of support (the Rogue Ride). It's all a matter of what you want. If your goal is to race, you're probably going to have to pay a hefty price. If you just want to ride and enjoy yourself with a bunch of like-mind "gravel heads", there are probably other options wherever you live.

thepointchris wrote:I think you guys have been Lance-Tranced way too long. The fact that some real $ have to be paid to stage these events ( yea try and host one for free, on public roads, and make a buck) and the implied use of PEDs are just too far removed from each other! I've been lucky enough to share a few events and aftermaths with, Niel Shirley, Ned Overend, Alison Tetrick, Yuri Hauswald, Dave Z, all multi-time winners of several events, and the PED thing is about as for removed from these guys as a clean National Election! Are there a few losers in there that have popped a pill, or are on the program? Sure, there's one in every ride. Has it stopped you from getting your podium or your hard-earned money's worth? Not a chance. These rides and routes are open to us all, most the time, for free. Support the ones that are turned into events that you like to spend money on, or don't. Ride your bike where and how it turns you on. Enjoy the ride!

There are TONS of free gravel events, on public roads, so the profit motive is not universal. And how is implying PED use too far removed from any event, pay or not? Yes, people on a doping regimen do stop others from their podiums and cheat them out of getting their money's worth. That's kind of the whole point of getting on a program. When something like gravel racing gains this much popularity and commercial success then the cheaters start showing up. I don't think that's too far removed from anything. That's the reality you face now if your intentions are to win anything. Ironically enough the rise of gravel scene timed perfectly with the downfall of Lance. The same year of the confession (2013) is when the participation at gravel events really started to blow up. I was toeing up to start lines of gravel races in 2007-2008 with maybe 100 people, in 2013 many of those same events were drawing 1000+. 

I don't really see a down side here.

I started racing cyclocross at the end of the 80s. At that time there were no off-the-shelf bikes. It was a funky and fun thing to do in the winter. Eventually it got popular and guys started showing up in the B class races with carbon wheels. Not as funky, but still fun I guess. But none of the cyclocross technology really trickled down.

As the gravel market gets bigger, it looks like we're finally getting:

• Fast and fat tires (plus tubeless)
• Lower, sensible gearing, be it subcompact cranks or 1x
• Comfortable geometry that's more than a taller head tube
• Smart accessories, like dyno lighting and bag options
• Less insular marketing

thepointchris wrote:I think you guys have been Lance-Tranced way too long. The fact that some real $ have to be paid to stage these events ( yea try and host one for free, on public roads, and make a buck) and the implied use of PEDs are just too far removed from each other! I've been lucky enough to share a few events and aftermaths with, Niel Shirley, Ned Overend, Alison Tetrick, Yuri Hauswald, Dave Z, all multi-time winners of several events, and the PED thing is about as for removed from these guys as a clean National Election!

Dave Z. was suspended for doping while riding for Postal.

Anywho, there are some big rides out there. Barry-Roubaix will have several thousand riders. It's a very fun race but the fees add up. At the same time there are still self-supported postcard registration rides. Gravel racing might get as popular as cyclocross racing, but that means it will still be an outlier in the cycling world. Gravel riding is another prediction. I agree with Dr W - we're getting better gear.

I think this doping crap with cycling is ridiculous and totally out of hand! Every sport around the world has way more dopers than cycling will ever have! Simply put cycling just tests for it more constantly and it’s shows up more frequently \nI wish before every game all players got t. Football basketball all of them. Then cycling wouldn’t be the dopey sport! \n \nOn that note cash prizes are Saweet, prizes are fantastic, swag from sponsors (local bike shops) around the country live music, street dance afterwards! \n \nAll this is what GRAVEL GRINDING the WILD WEST is about. So if you are more into testing your skills, adventurous hearted and enjoy beautiful scenery not thinking about PED people or over advertised events like DK look around!!!! There are amazing gravel races going on everywhere and traveling around to see the U.S doing a sport you love is what it’s all about🚵🏻‍♂️🤙🏻 \n \nhttp://www.energyaddicts.net

I don't mind entry fees if there's value in them.  Support, aid stations, etc.

$125 where they did nothing but permits through a national forest and a cue sheet?  Nah.

sully wrote:I don't mind entry fees if there's value in them.  Support, aid stations, etc.

$125 where they did nothing but permits through a national forest and a cue sheet?  Nah.

\n \n \nTotally agree!

sully wrote:I don't mind entry fees if there's value in them.  Support, aid stations, etc.

$125 where they did nothing but permits through a national forest and a cue sheet?  Nah.

Curious as to what ride/race that was.

Zman

Thanks everyone for your postings. I've enjoyed reading all of them. 

ridemagnetic wrote:The PED mention kind of struck a chord with me. Every endurance sport is tainted by it, pro and amateur alike. Even though I haven't lived in MN for 8 years I still keep close tabs on the races I used to frequent and see some names crowding many of the podiums these days that were troublemakers when I used to race road. When I was a Cat III I used the same massage therapist as one of them and was also offered PED's. I refused but became really depressed that I was wasting my time chasing around dopers at the local races. That was my last season. Couple of these guys were racing at a national level too and their careers ended suddenly when they were popped for EPO. Did they totally eliminate doping from their training when they took up gravel racing?... I'd like to believe that, but highly unlikely. I think it's a safe bet that some people are doping for the big events like DK, Almanzo, etc.. and have been for years.

As far as getting too commercial or mainstream, it was bound to happen. Participation rates at gravel events skyrocketed in the last decade. More catered gravel camps for the 1%, entry fees will keep rising, and we'll be inundated with more gravelized tech whether real or bandwagon. The shark has to keep swimming or it dies.

\n \nNames please! I’d like to know who to watch out for!