gravel king sk 38c tires blowing off 25 mm internal rim at 55 psi??

60 replies · 2,747 views

HollyBoni
333 posts
#21Mar 23, 2019, 3:50 PMedited
SWGraveler wrote:I'd like others to chime-in here; if you do/don't agree with me I'd like to hear your perspectives.

The tyre says 60psi max tubeless on the sidewall. He pumped it up to 60psi, and the tyre blew off the rim.
Where is the carelessness here? Yes, that is a high pressure for a tubeless gravel tyre, but if you can't run the tyre at that pressure, then why is it printed on the sidewall? I know that because of slight variances some tyres can fit looser on some rims, but i'd expect the manufacturer to account for that.
If the OP would have pumped up the tyres to a 100psi or something, that would be another story, but he was right on the limit.
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spectastic
43 posts
#22Mar 23, 2019, 5:12 PM
SWGraveler wrote:

Sorry, but I have to call this out for what it is; a lack of integrity. At this point, the fact that it blew at 55 psi is meaningless as the tire has clearly been damaged by your previous carelessness. This has been pointed out repeatedly.. Cleaning does not restore the integrity of something that has been damaged.. Imho, it speaks to the quality of the tire that it withstood that much pressure at this point.

We all pay more for thing because mfg's have to allow for/pay for stuff like this. How you can file a warranty claim with a clear conscience is amazing to me.. Karma will visit you; she is not always a nice girl.

I'd like others to chime-in here; if you do/don't agree with me I'd like to hear your perspectives.

Lots of love for the Gravelking here; it will continue to be my tire of choice.

how about your go and enjoy your gravelkings and stop offering useless information and opinions on here?
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Koyote
288 posts
#23Mar 23, 2019, 5:46 PMedited
SWGraveler wrote:

Sorry, but I have to call this out for what it is; a lack of integrity. At this point, the fact that it blew at 55 psi is meaningless as the tire has clearly been damaged by your previous carelessness. This has been pointed out repeatedly.. Cleaning does not restore the integrity of something that has been damaged.. Imho, it speaks to the quality of the tire that it withstood that much pressure at this point.

We all pay more for thing because mfg's have to allow for/pay for stuff like this. How you can file a warranty claim with a clear conscience is amazing to me.. Karma will visit you; she is not always a nice girl.

I'd like others to chime-in here; if you do/don't agree with me I'd like to hear your perspectives.

Lots of love for the Gravelking here; it will continue to be my tire of choice.

I’m with SWGraveler. And I don’t know what sort of gauge the OP was using, but many of them are wildly inaccurate. Unless you are using a good handheld gauge, it’s possible that the tire was inflated beyond 60 PSI. Even if it was only inflated to 60 PSI, and that is stamped on the tire sidewall, that is just foolish. No one runs tubeless tires of that size at 60 PSI. If the OP had done his homework ahead of time, he would never have blown that sucker off the rim.

I’m guessing that the tire will be replaced as a warranty claim… But that does not make it right.

I will also note this: the OP started this thread by acknowledging that s/he is new to tubeless...and then dismissed all the advice that was offered. You get what you deserve.
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spectastic
43 posts
#24Mar 23, 2019, 9:10 PMedited
Dismiss? They're called rebuttals. It's what thinking people do to deliberate instead of simply accepting what they're told as facts.

So far, I've seen no legitimate reason for why a tire should blow off at a pressure less than the max recommended pressure, which by most manufacturer standards, is a conservative estimate. You should know this

Bike shop looked at the tire twice after first blow off and saw no bead damage. I inspected it closely, and cleaned every inch. No signs of damage. Rim was tried with a different tire and held fine at 60. They pushed the limit on a tire past the max psi and got a blowout out after 100 psi, way beyond the rated max pressure. Inaccurate gauge. Right.. for the last 7 years, I've been running 120 psi instead of 100. Give me a break..

Now let's take a look at the argument you're making. A manufacturer is not liable for upholding the claims they make for their products. What happens if you hit a large pot hole or large rock at your normal pressure, but because the bead had quality issues, you experience a blowout? You're right, you do deserve what you get
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#25Mar 23, 2019, 9:46 PMedited
spectastic I am with the others that said you blew this. If you come on a gravel riding forum and say you are a newbie and then take none of the advice is given I would say that is pretty stupid. You might not get any good advice in the future either. I have heard of tires blowing off the rim before and I also think I have read on the forum that it has everything to do with the rim and not the tire. I can't remember if it was because the tire was too loose or tight on the rim I also remember that some people have trouble with certain tires on certain rims and others haven't. Yeah I think karma will come back to bit you in the a_s. I would hope that at least you are smart enough to get the LBS to do it next time so you don't screw up another tire. All the advice I have received on this forum when I was a newbie was spot on. I guess you will have to learn the hard way. I doubt that Panaracer will send you the 2nd tire when you screw that up. I let the LBS seat my tires as I didn't have a way to get that quick blast in a tire but then I don't think they went past 50 or 55 psi. Maybe somebody can correct me if I am wrong. You can run a tubeless rated tire either tubeless or with a tube. Maybe that 60 lbs. psi is for a tube. The other thing is if you were actually listening the benefit of running a tubeless tire is for running lower pressures 40/45 or even lower to take the rough stuff out of riding gravel. Therefore I don't know anybody running over 50 lbs psi on tubeless tires/tubeless but you haven't seem to picked up on that thought process yet.

Zman
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Koyote
288 posts
#26Mar 23, 2019, 10:02 PM
spectastic wrote:Dismiss? They're called rebuttals. It's what thinking people do to deliberate instead of simply accepting what they're told as facts.

So far, I've seen no legitimate reason for why a tire should blow off at a pressure less than the max recommended pressure, which by most manufacturer standards, is a conservative estimate. You should know this

Some posters have offered reasons for your experience, but you refuse to accept them. Oh, sorry...you have offered "rebuttals" from your vast experience in mounting tubeless tires.

Here's what I do know: I've managed to successfully mount and ride tubeless tires. So I must know something that you don't know. And I'm done trying to help you, with this or any other newbie question. Nightie 'night!
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spectastic
43 posts
#27Mar 23, 2019, 10:08 PM
Zurichman wrote:spectastic I am with the others that said you blew this. If you come on a gravel riding forum and say you are a newbie and then take none of the advice is given I would say that is pretty stupid. You might not get any good advice in the future either. I have heard of tires blowing off the rim before and I also think I have read on the forum that it has everything to do with the rim and not the tire. I can't remember if it was because the tire was too loose or tight on the rim I also remember that some people have trouble with certain tires on certain rims and others haven't. Yeah I think karma will come back to bit you in the a_s. I would hope that at least you are smart enough to get the LBS to do it next time so you don't screw up another tire. All the advice I have received on this forum when I was a newbie was spot on. I guess you will have to learn the hard way. I doubt that Panaracer will send you the 2nd tire when you screw that up. I let the LBS seat my tires as I didn't have a way to get that quick blast in a tire but then I don't think they went past 50 or 55 psi. Maybe somebody can correct me if I am wrong. You can run a tubeless rated tire either tubeless or with a tube. Maybe that 60 lbs. psi is for a tube. The other thing is if you were actually listening the benefit of running a tubeless tire is for running lower pressures 40/45 or even lower to take the rough stuff out of riding gravel. Therefore I don't know anybody running over 50 lbs psi on tubeless tires/tubeless but you haven't seem to picked up on that thought process yet.

Zman

advice? what advice????

people said it's because of the rim assuming that it's hookless. I affirmed, and reaffirmed that it is a HOOKED rim.

We tested the rim yesterday with a set of cannonballs and it held at 80 psi. not that I was planning to ride on 80. We were testing to see if it was the tire or the rim. We now have sufficient evidence it's the tire.
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spectastic
43 posts
#28Mar 23, 2019, 10:14 PM
Koyote wrote:

Some posters have offered reasons for your experience, but you refuse to accept them. Oh, sorry...you have offered "rebuttals" from your vast experience in mounting tubeless tires.

Here's what I do know: I've managed to successfully mount and ride tubeless tires. So I must know something that you don't know. And I'm done trying to help you, with this or any other newbie question. Nightie 'night!

Here's what I know. you assumed I had hookless rims and offered bad advice. and I didn't ignore you. I corrected you saying that it's a hooked rim. Do you even logic?
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#29Mar 23, 2019, 10:59 PMedited
spectastic wrote:

advice? what advice????

people said it's because of the rim assuming that it's hookless. I affirmed, and reaffirmed that it is a HOOKED rim.

We tested the rim yesterday with a set of cannonballs and it held at 80 psi. not that I was planning to ride on 80. We were testing to see if it was the tire or the rim. We now have sufficient evidence it's the tire.

You can't see the forest for the trees.

The advice everyone was giving you that you shouldn't be blowing your tires up to 60 lbs. psi but you won't take their advice. Just because another tire will take 80 lbs. psi on that rim doesn't mean the gravel kings will take 60 lbs. before they blow off but then you have already aired up 20 different tires and rims by now being the newbie. Do yourself and us a favor when you get the new tire take it to the LBS and get them to seat it in at only 50 lbs. psi. You have no evidence that it's the tire. The only thing that you have proved is that the cannonballs won't blow off at 80 lbs. psi. If you were taking some of these people's advice you would know that different tires depending on how tight/loose they fit on the rim will seal at different pressures without blowing off. Some rims will take certain tires and not others. Guessing you aren't getting this but will wager when you get your new tire that it will blow off again at 60 lbs. psi. Good luck

Zman
1
spectastic
43 posts
#30Mar 23, 2019, 11:41 PM
Zurichman wrote:

You can't see the forest for the trees.

The advice everyone was giving you that you shouldn't be blowing your tires up to 60 lbs. psi but you won't take their advice. Just because another tire will take 80 lbs. psi on that rim doesn't mean the gravel kings will take 60 lbs. before they blow off but then you have already aired up 20 different tires and rims by now being the newbie. Do yourself and us a favor when you get the new tire take it to the LBS and get them to seat it in at only 50 lbs. psi. You have no evidence that it's the tire. The only thing that you have proved is that the cannonballs won't blow off at 80 lbs. psi. If you were taking some of these people's advice you would know that different tires depending on how tight/loose they fit on the rim will seal at different pressures without blowing off. Some rims will take certain tires and not others. Guessing you aren't getting this but will wager when you get your new tire that it will blow off again at 60 lbs. psi. Good luck

Zman

other than it says so on the tire that it should be able to tolerate 60 psi? I agree I shouldn't go to 60 psi. but the tire should be able to handle that nevertheless. I have video showing the rear tire blowing off at 55 and front tire (also GK) holding 60 no problem

i don't have a problem with the advice that 60 psi is too high for gravel. that seems sensible to me. what I do have a problem with is people like you playing white knight and accusing me for being irresponsible or unethical for wanting a tire that does what it's supposed to do. and instead of offering value, y'all go on some rant about how i don't take advice that have been filled with false assumptions. grow up.
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#31Mar 23, 2019, 11:46 PM
I have nuthin to add as the newbie it seems you know it all. Won't be responding to any of your posts in the future. Why should I you know it all. Maybe you should actually do some soul searching thru some of the threads about people having tires blow off rims and then maybe you would actually know why people are trying to give you some advice.

Zman
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SWGraveler
247 posts
#32Mar 24, 2019, 12:44 AM
spectastic wrote:

I have video showing the rear tire blowing off at 55 and front tire (also GK) holding 60 no problem

Sorry for the delayed response; I took your advice and went for a ride.

Again, (which is part of the frustration here), at the time of the 55psi blow-off, the rear tire had already been damaged by the initial event while the front had not been damaged. Again,(…)your detailed cleaning does not translate to repairing the bead; it may look fine visually but that just doesn't matter as you can't see the tiny but relevant bit of stretching that has occurred.. So, that video is not of any real relevance; it is like having video of a wrecked car as opposed to video of the wreck itself.

No doubt Panaracer will replace the tire; get it mounted by the LBS; ride safely and enjoy it.

I'm starting to think that tubeless is a plot by the bike industry to keep folks going into shops. Maybe Amazon delivery trucks should start offering a tubeless install service with tire purchase... You have to admit that would be handy; anyone know how to reach Bezos or his ex?

So, now that we have had a pinch of tubeless levity, I vote we seal this up.

I'm on again at 10:00..
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#33Mar 24, 2019, 12:44 AMedited
HollyBoni wrote:

The tyre says 60psi max tubeless on the sidewall. He pumped it up to 60psi, and the tyre blew off the rim.
Where is the carelessness here? Yes, that is a high pressure for a tubeless gravel tyre, but if you can't run the tyre at that pressure, then why is it printed on the sidewall? I know that because of slight variances some tyres can fit looser on some rims, but i'd expect the manufacturer to account for that.
If the OP would have pumped up the tyres to a 100psi or something, that would be another story, but he was right on the limit.

He was on the max limit. So for those of you that have read about lots of people having problems setting up tubeless tires we know all rims and tires aren't always a match. The way he can prove this is to only air up the next tire to 50 lbs. to get it to seat. Him saying that the front did but the rear didn't kind of goes along with what happened to me once. My not tubeless tires on my Raleigh Tamland 1 I was able to get the front sealed even though it wasn't suppose to. The rear just had lots of leaks after I even did the Stans shake. I eventually just put a tube in it before I changed them out to Kenda Flintridge Pro's for my Kansas ride.

Zman
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spectastic
43 posts
#34Mar 24, 2019, 12:58 AMedited
SWGraveler wrote:

Sorry for the delayed response; I took your advice and went for a ride.

Again, (which is part of the frustration here), at the time of the 55psi blow-off, the rear tire had already been damaged by the initial event while the front had not been damaged. Again,(…)your detailed cleaning does not translate to repairing the bead; it may look fine visually but that just doesn't matter as you can't see the tiny but relevant bit of stretching that has occurred.. So, that video is not of any real relevance; it is like having video of a wrecked car as opposed to video of the wreck itself.

No doubt Panaracer will replace the tire; get it mounted by the LBS; ride safely and enjoy it.

I'm starting to think that tubeless is a plot by the bike industry to keep folks going into shops. Maybe Amazon delivery trucks should start offering a tubeless install service with tire purchase... You have to admit that would be handy; anyone know how to reach Bezos or his ex?

So, now that we have had a pinch of tubeless levity, I vote we seal this up.

I'm on again at 10:00..

already been damaged? ok. pop quiz. at what pressure did the tire blow off in the "intial event?"
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spectastic
43 posts
#35Mar 24, 2019, 1:01 AM
Zurichman wrote:

He was on the max limit. So for those of you that have read about lots of people having problems setting up tubeless tires we know all rims and tires aren't always a match. The way he can prove this is to only air up the next tire to 50 lbs. to get it to seat. Him saying that the front did but the rear didn't kind of goes along with what happened to me once. My not tubeless tires on my Raleigh Tamland 1 I was able to get the front sealed even though it wasn't suppose to. The rear just had lots of leaks after I even did the Stans shake. I eventually just put a tube in it before I changed them out to Kenda Flintridge Pro's for my Kansas ride.

Zman

actually, no they're not at all similar situations. anyway, why are you still here bickering about this? don't you have something better to do?
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HollyBoni
333 posts
#36Mar 24, 2019, 4:38 AMedited
Zurichman wrote:

He was on the max limit. So for those of you that have read about lots of people having problems setting up tubeless tires we know all rims and tires aren't always a match.

Zman

I have two pairs of GravelKing SKs and when seating them with an air compressor i'm 99% sure I went up to 60psi. Why did I feel comfortable going up to 60psi? Because the tyre on the sidewall clearly said 60psi max. Zero issues. 60psi is not a lot for just seating a tyre, and not actually riding it at that pressure. The 60psi limit is for tubeless, not tubes. The max pressure with tubes is 75psi. The tyres blowing off at 60 is not normal. Again, if a tyre says 60psi on the sidewall, it should be able to handle 60psi. You repeated me by saying that tyres and rims aren't always a match. I said the exact same thing, and I also added that the manufacturer should take that into account when limiting the max pressure. And yeah, not all air pressure gauges are a 100% accurate, i'd expect the manufacturer to also take that into account, and not come up with a limit where 60psi is fine, but at 61psi the tyre explodes.

The OP is kind of right. You're acting like just because someone has more posts on a forum they're gods and know-it-alls. That's so far from the truth. I've read soooo much bad info on forums (even on this one), it's insane. A lot of the time people don't even bother reading the comment properly that they're responding to. And actually, i'm pretty sure i've heard the dumbest things from bike mechanics. I worked as one, I know what goes down behind the scenes and how many shops are not honest. (One of the reasons I left was because I didn't really like that I was constantly forced by my boss to screw over customers) So the guys at the LBS are not gods either, anyone can work as a bike mechanic.

The OP posted about an issue, the first comment had bad info about the hookless rim thing, then people jumped on the bandwagon and started simply attacking him for the high pressure thing. And some of these people even admitted themselves that they're tubeless noobs. Not very helpful, just the usual internet forum thing, everything turns into a big argument.

Let's say a frame is rated for jumps up to 25". You might use that frame for tame cross country riding, or going to the shops, or riding gravel, and you never leave the ground with it. That's fine. But when someone uses that frame more aggressively and lands a jump that's exactly 25" high, and the frame breaks in half, is that normal? I don't think so.
If a product is rated for something by the manufacturer, it should be able to handle it.
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#37Mar 24, 2019, 8:54 AMedited
Ok HollyBoni you kind of got me there and thanks for the advice that you have given me on this forum. What I do remember reading was that different tires and different rims don't seal up right. I don't remember which thread I read it on here or maybe it was over at gravel cyclist but Ted guitar said he had a hard time getting a set on tires to seal up on a tire review he was doing which is completely different that a tire blowing off. I have only used 2 tires so far Donnley xplor MSO and Kenda Flintridge Pro's and so I know it was one of those of which I had no problems getting them to seal up. I guess at my end if I was having that kind of trouble I probably would try sealing them up at a lower pressure. I also think I have read on here that the tire blows off because it isn't fitting the rim properly which has nothing at all to do with a tire being defective.

I guess I am lucky in that I live here in rural Pa. where I know the shops are honest. The only thing I see is that 2 different shops charge you much different prices in getting the same service done.

Zman
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Rusty Frame
18 posts
#38Mar 25, 2019, 5:08 AM
I had the same problem but with different rims. I replaced the G-Ones I wore out on my Felt V-85 (original rims) with Gravel Kings. I had run 70 psi with the G-ones (their recommended max) when on pavement (I was 260 lbs then) with no problem. After the switch to Gravel Kings, I reduced the pressure to 60 psi. (GK recommended max.) only to find a deflated tire and sealant all over the basement the morning after a ride (on 2 separate occasions). Switched back to the G-Ones ($$) and have had no problems, though I've lost 20 lbs and run them at 60 psi. All the tires were installed at a shop with much tubeless experience. The mechanic commented that the G-ones were tighter but the GK's had been harder to seal.
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heybrady
39 posts
#39Mar 25, 2019, 7:24 AM
55psi is way too high for those tires. I weigh 225lb and don't go above 35psi for any riding, road included. At 55psi you are likely bouncing all over the place. Lose a bunch of air, gain a bunch of comfort, no loss of speed.
1
chas
1,305 posts
#40Mar 25, 2019, 12:26 PM
I would fill out a warranty and get a replacement. I’ve done it in a similar situation.
I do wonder what the root cause is. Is it the tire, the rim, the tire-rim compatibility? It should be able to take 60psi. But that is the upper limit. Personally, I wouldn’t ride it that high (or would use a tube with it if I really had to somehow).
Tires do need to get the bead to set properly. Usually I hear a loud “pop” as the bead sets. I always check when I mount a tire that the bead is set properly. Usually in the first couple of minutes it hasn’t popped on yet. Sometimes it’s just mounted funky, and I can tell the bead is about to blow off. I typically blow it up 50%, check to see its not about to blow off, then blow it up to 100%, and ensure that the bead seats properly, then lower it back down to the pressure I intend to use.
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