Fast 650B tire for pavement

31 replies · 5,621 views

Cody
92 posts
#1Mar 8, 2020, 9:56 PM
I'm looking for a fast rolling 650B tire for pavement use on my gravel bike.

Any recommendations?

I'm come into possession of some new 27.5 rims that I would like to use for pure road use on my gravel bike.
Thanks!

0
ljsmith
762 posts
#2Mar 9, 2020, 6:21 AM
Schwalbe G-One speed comes in 27.5 x 40 and 27.5 x 50. It’s probably the fastest tire available in those sizes. If you are looking for true road tires the Schwalbe Pro One and Continental GP5000 are available in 650b x 28.
1
widerisfaster
253 posts
#3Mar 9, 2020, 6:19 PM▲ Top
I believe the Rene Herse Switchback Hill 48mm will be the fastest and lightest 650b tire for tarmac.

They weight 50-100g less than the G-one speed 650x50:
Standard casing is 478g
Extralight Casing is 413g

On a 26mm inner width wheel they measure 51-52mm, about the same as the g-one speed 50's.

note: Rene Herse was formerly called Compass.

https://road.cc/content/review/244744-compass-650b-x-48-switchback-hill-extralight-tc

https://www.roadbikerider.com/rene-herse-650b-switchback-hill-extralight-tire-review/

4
ljsmith
762 posts
#4Mar 10, 2020, 5:42 AM
widerisfaster wrote:I believe the Rene Herse Switchback Hill 48mm will be the fastest and lightest 650b tire for tarmac.

They weight 50-100g less than the G-one speed 650x50:
Standard casing is 478g
Extralight Casing is 413g

On a 26mm inner width wheel they measure 51-52mm, about the same as the g-one speed 50's.

note: Rene Herse was formerly called Compass.

https://road.cc/content/review/244744-compass-650b-x-48-switchback-hill-extralight-tc

https://www.roadbikerider.com/rene-herse-650b-switchback-hill-extralight-tire-review/

They may be lighter but I doubt they are faster. The Compass Bon Jon scores very poorly at bicycle rolling resistance so the rubber compound and design Compass uses is not very good.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews/compass-bon-jon-pass-2018
2
shiggy
404 posts
#5Mar 10, 2020, 8:50 AM
ljsmith wrote:

They may be lighter but I doubt they are faster. The Compass Bon Jon scores very poorly at bicycle rolling resistance so the rubber compound and design Compass uses is not very good.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews/compass-bon-jon-pass-2018

[QUOTE username=ljsmith userid=4757441 postid=1310942271]

“Very poorly” is an exaggeration to say the least.
I have ridden several of the tires tested, on real roads (when was the last time you rode on a small diameter metal drum).
None were noticeably “slow”. The Compass tires were more comfortable and handled better.
My go-to 650B road tires are the Panaracer Gravel King (slick) or Rene Herse (Compass) standard casing, 42mm. If your rims are wider than ~23mm (internal) I would use the 48mm versions.
1
Cody
92 posts
#6Mar 10, 2020, 12:28 PM
The rims I'm planning to use are about 20mm internal (Syncros XC37).

I think I may just go with regular road tires 650B x 28 unless someone can convince me that wider is faster. My regular set of gravel wheels are 25mm internal paired with WTB Byways 27.5 x 47.

QUOTE username=shiggy userid=2352324 postid=1310943053]

“Very poorly” is an exaggeration to say the least.
I have ridden several of the tires tested, on real roads (when was the last time you rode on a small diameter metal drum).
None were noticeably “slow”. The Compass tires were more comfortable and handled better.
My go-to 650B road tires are the Panaracer Gravel King (slick) or Rene Herse (Compass) standard casing, 42mm. If your rims are wider than ~23mm (internal) I would use the 48mm versions.
[/QUOTE]
0
shiggy
404 posts
#7Mar 10, 2020, 2:57 PMedited
Cody wrote:The rims I'm planning to use are about 20mm internal (Syncros XC37).

I think I may just go with regular road tires 650B x 28 unless someone can convince me that wider is faster. My regular set of gravel wheels are 25mm internal paired with WTB Byways 27.5 x 47.

With my 42mm Gravel Kings I have no problems keeping up on road group rides with most everyone else on 700 x 25.

The RH and GK are also available in 38mm.
1
owly
328 posts
#8Mar 10, 2020, 7:25 PM
While I found the 42mm extralight Rene Herse fast enough, you may want to start out with the old Panaracer Pari-Moto 42mm as they are much cheaper. Close in weight.

Note they are not strictly tubeless tyres. Also the tread in the center is around a mm, compared to 3mm? on the Rene Herse.
1
ccand51997
265 posts
#9Mar 10, 2020, 8:15 PM
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Check out this chart of rolling resistance testing done by Tom A. It will shed some light on some possible tire options. Obviously, the 5000GP in 28mm is going to be the fastest if you don't need a lot of tire volume. Depending on your comfort level with that kind of thing, I suspect you could run regular GPs tubeless if you wanted to because they fit really well. My older GP4000s set up tubeless really easy, but I don't like riding small tires anymore.
You will note that the Byways you use are not a particularly fast tire and that corresponds with my own test results as well. I use one on the front of my gravel bike and for off-road use it is pretty versatile, but it has a lot of rubber and thus, is not particularly fast even if it is smooth. I would not recommend for road only.
He did not test any Schwalbe tires, but based off other testing that I have seen but is no longer available, I would guess you are probably giving up 3-5 watts per tire for a G-One Speed vs the GP5000, but remember that the GP5000 is pretty much the best all-around tire you can buy right now. If I was doing what you are doing, I might put a 5000tl in 32mm on the front and a G-One Speed in 38mm or 50mm on the back for super comfort.
I'm really crossing my fingers that Continental keeps on their upward trend in the tire sizing of the their GP tires. 32mm this year (I have a 5000tl and really like it) 38mm and beyond in the future. I hope.
1
ccand51997
265 posts
#10Mar 10, 2020, 8:17 PM
Sorry, I forgot they don't make the 32mm in 650b. I would go with the 650bx28 gp5000 or jump to the 38mm G-One Speed if comfort was more important than speed.
1
mrbaumer
8 posts
#11Mar 11, 2020, 9:40 AM
Just to provide the obligatory contrary opinion:

https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-tires-are-slower/

Jan Heine argues that testing rolling resistance on a drum is unrealistic and that it's all about the suppleness of the casing. His claim is that 38mm tires roll just as fast as 25mm, with much better comfort and traction. On chip seal they would probably be more efficient due to less bouncing. Downside is weight.

I'd like to ask him what that means in terms of his "endurance plus" gravel casings, which must approach the same stiffness as Gravelkings, Riddlers, etc.

Now the real problem with his tires is that they're almost 2x the money of Panaracers...
2
drwelby
531 posts
#12Mar 11, 2020, 10:18 AM
The RH tires can be really annoying to set up tubeless, while the Schwalbes are "set it and forget it". Having run both I'd say the RH tires are a nebulous "nicer" ride, and maybe anecdotally "faster" (I have no numbers to prove it). But I'm phasing them out for Schwalbes G-Ones and Thunder Burts.
2
Cody
92 posts
#13Mar 11, 2020, 11:47 AM
I recently ran across these Maxxis Detonator tires during my search.

https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-261-143-detonator-hybrid

Anyone have experience with these? For a 27.5 x 1.5 they seem to be a lot cheaper than the GP5000s or the G-Ones.
1
ccand51997
265 posts
#14Mar 11, 2020, 12:27 PM
mrbaumer wrote:Just to provide the obligatory contrary opinion:

https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-tires-are-slower/

Jan Heine argues that testing rolling resistance on a drum is unrealistic and that it's all about the suppleness of the casing. His claim is that 38mm tires roll just as fast as 25mm, with much better comfort and traction. On chip seal they would probably be more efficient due to less bouncing. Downside is weight.

Except that if you read Tom's whole page he tested Rene Herse tires and they are some of the fastest tires he tested, so it is not really a contradictory opinion.
I do my own power meter testing on the road, usually a bumpy road and whenever I test the tires he tests, my results come out very similar to what he does, though without the exactness.
0
karl
15 posts
#15Mar 13, 2020, 6:58 AM
Having ridden both the Schwalbe and the Switchback Hills set up on a set of Hunt wheels. 30mm. The RH are noticeably faster imho. But more importantly they are just more fun. I have not gone back to 700c since this set up. I use these wheels and tires for all my rides regardless of the surface. I'm 175lbs and run around 26psi rear 23 front. They can be a bit of a pita to set up for sure, but worth the fun ride.
1
nalax
84 posts
#16Mar 13, 2020, 11:30 PM
karl wrote:Having ridden both the Schwalbe and the Switchback Hills set up on a set of Hunt wheels. 30mm. The RH are noticeably faster imho. But more importantly they are just more fun. I have not gone back to 700c since this set up. I use these wheels and tires for all my rides regardless of the surface. I'm 175lbs and run around 26psi rear 23 front. They can be a bit of a pita to set up for sure, but worth the fun ride.

Agreed. I went from the WTB Horizon to the WTB Byway to the Compass Switchback Hill. The SBH imho is noticeably faster than either of the WTB's. Also took more time to set up tubeless but the ride is so smooth.
0
thegreatdelcamo
43 posts
#17Mar 14, 2020, 12:44 PM
I’m a huge fan of the Compass tires. I rode the 48s (in extra light) to my best AG win of the year (The Divide). I attacked three younger guys--three corners from the finish--and those tires literally sizzled as I clipped apexes. Nobody could catch me on knobbies. I’ll use them again in that race.
0
widerisfaster
253 posts
#18Mar 17, 2020, 11:25 PM
thegreatdelcamo wrote:I’m a huge fan of the Compass tires. I rode the 48s (in extra light) to my best AG win of the year.... Nobody could catch me on knobbies.

Were you riding on knobbies (Juniper Ridge 650b x 48 Extra Light), or the filetread Switchback Hill 650b x 48?
0
shiggy
404 posts
#19Mar 18, 2020, 9:02 AM
widerisfaster wrote:
Were you riding on knobbies (Juniper Ridge 650b x 48 Extra Light), or the filetread Switchback Hill 650b x 48?

In another thread he says he does not have the Juniper Ridge (knobby) in Extra Light, so the above would have been on the slick.
1
thegreatdelcamo
43 posts
#20Mar 18, 2020, 9:49 AM
widerisfaster wrote:
Were you riding on knobbies (Juniper Ridge 650b x 48 Extra Light), or the filetread Switchback Hill 650b x 48?

Sorry for not being clear. The slicks (filetread). Truly exceptional tires.
1

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