Thunder Burt on pavement?

23 replies · 8,740 views

jockstick
47 posts
#1Apr 18, 2020, 11:55 AM
Can anyone comment on how thunder burts roll on pavement compared to say G-One all round?

I’m looking for a tire that’s decent on loose gravel but still rolls pretty well on the pavement.

Other tires I’m considering are G-One Bite, Soma Cazadero, Maxxis Rambler.

Ideal size is around 700x45.
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ccand51997
265 posts
#2Apr 18, 2020, 6:43 PM
I have tried a few tires and found all the following tires to be very close in speed: the TB, WTB Byway, G-One allround in 38mm, Conti Raceking 2.2 Protection and the WTB Resolute. I think the G-One Speed is a bit faster but not by much. I've power meter testing long enough to feel confident all those tires are pretty similary but it is not so exact as for me to say one is definitively faster than the others.
The traction, width and float on the Conti Race King and Thunderburt are a bit of overkill unless you need it for hard cornering or climbing out of ruts. I wish Conti made a tire bigger than their current gravel offerings that barely measure 40mm and the Raceking at 57mm.
For me the perfect all around tire would be a combo of the G-One speed in the middle of the tire with allround side knobs, or a similar slick center on a Raceking with the regular side knobs.
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jockstick
47 posts
#3Apr 18, 2020, 11:21 PM
Surprising that you didn't notice much difference between them, is that on the road or on trails?

I'm currently running 700x38 G-One allround, which feel plenty fast on the pavement, but do not instill any confidence on loose gravel descents. It could just be the width though. I wish they made something around 700x45. Next size up from the 38c is 29x2.25 which won't fit my frame.
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ljsmith
762 posts
#4Apr 19, 2020, 12:22 PM
jockstick wrote:Surprising that you didn't notice much difference between them, is that on the road or on trails?

I'm currently running 700x38 G-One allround, which feel plenty fast on the pavement, but do not instill any confidence on loose gravel descents. It could just be the width though. I wish they made something around 700x45. Next size up from the 38c is 29x2.25 which won't fit my frame.

Thats where the gravel tire market is still lacking. If you want a 700 x 40 or a 650 x 47, there are a ton of options. But I think with new frames offering more clearance people would like some more sizes in the 700 x 45 range and 650 x 50 range, of which there are very few.

I use Thunderburts for some rides. They roll fast for what they are, a very fast semi slick mountain bike tire, but they still will be slower than most good gravel tires. While not terrible on pavement they feel noticeably slower than a G One, I personally would not use them for any ride that included a good amount of pavement. Unless you are bombing down a bunch of loose gravel descents (or singletrack), in my opinion the Thunderburts generally would not be worth the rolling resistance penalty on pavement or smooth gravel.
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ccand51997
265 posts
#5Apr 19, 2020, 1:40 PM
I test on the roads mostly, and generally on climbs so I can take wind resistance out of the picture as much as possible. The road is paved but with sections of broken pavement. It would be nice to have a more exact way to test rolling resistance, but I don't have a roller like these guys:

Bicyclerollingresistance

Blather 'bout bikes

Part of the similarity is that I do a lot of research into tires, so I generally don't buy slow tires and thus they all tend to roll pretty well.
I also prefer a bigger tire because my descents tend to be rocky and fast. The Byway is surprising good for this, though I'm not someone who shreds the corners at all.
One other note: my G-One all round tested slower when it was newer but now that the center knobs are worn down, I think it is definately faster on the pavement, more like a G-One Speed. If it was the 2.0 size, I would probably save the worn-down-center tire for races.
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ccand51997
265 posts
#6Apr 19, 2020, 3:57 PM
ljsmith wrote:

While not terrible on pavement they feel noticeably slower than a G One, I personally would not use them for any ride that included a good amount of pavement.

If you are talking about the G-One Speed I would agree, but the Allround has been slower than my Raceking or Thunderburt in tests I have done. I've had it long enough that the center is worn down and looks more like a Speed so I took it out again and I think it is a wash now, though I'm not 100 percent confident in my test conditions on that day.
I would agree about the tire sizing issues. I think the 35-40mm tire serves a lot of folks but for me, I always hit sand and need more floatation to avoid hike-a-bike, so when after 18 months of experiements, I built an mtb frame into my gravel bike so I could clear the bigger tires. I would love to see the new Conti Terra Speed in 650/700x47 with even less tread down the center or something big made using the 5000tl casing/rubber.
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jockstick
47 posts
#7Apr 21, 2020, 5:47 PM
After doing more research, the WTB Resolute seems pretty appealing as well. Does anyone have a heads up experience with it vs Thunder Burts?

I may go this route since my rims are only 19mm ID and 29x2.1 TBs might be too squirmy.
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ccand51997
265 posts
#8Apr 21, 2020, 6:04 PM
It is a 42mm tire vs. a 52mm tire, so a lot less float and traction. Speedwise, I would say the two are very close. The knobs on the Resolute are bigger than the TB despite being a much smaller tire. I can send you a Resolute if you want to try one and you can decide how much you think it is worth to you. My use for tires in the 38-42mm range is low.
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ljsmith
762 posts
#9Apr 21, 2020, 6:26 PM
ccand51997 wrote:

If you are talking about the G-One Speed I would agree, but the Allround has been slower than my Raceking or Thunderburt in tests I have done.

I've used both the Speed and Allround and don't really see much difference, though I do not use a power meter so take that for what its worth. There was a German magazine that did rolling resistance tests and found that the Speed and Allroad give basically the same rolling resistance, numbers are below.

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simplemind
71 posts
#10Apr 22, 2020, 5:52 AMedited
ljsmith wrote:

I've used both the Speed and Allround and don't really see much difference, though I do not use a power meter so take that for what its worth. There was a German magazine that did rolling resistance tests and found that the Speed and Allroad give basically the same rolling resistance, numbers are below.

I have used the allround for almost a year in a mix of tarmac and crushed gravel. It’s my “go to” for everything but scree and true rocky terrain. Excellent tire and I can’t tell a lot of difference in that and my slick road tire except I have a lot more confidence in the Allround.
I think the Resolute, at least in 650b, is a real winner for mixed gravel. It seams to wear a bit faster than the Thunderburt which I feel is really an XC MTB race tire.
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JWB475
154 posts
#11Apr 22, 2020, 12:14 PMedited
I have two sets of wheels for my bike, 700C 44mm Snoqualmie Pass for ~75% of my riding (asphalt, known gravel roads, etc.) and a set of 650B 2.1" Thunder Burts for those days where I plan to hit some singletrack, or when riding on unknown gravel conditions.

I think the Thunder Burts are a great gravel tire, and they they roll pretty well on asphalt. They are also significantly lighter than just about any other comparable 650B options out there. I replaced my 650B 48mm Gravel King SK's with them, which subsequently also dropped over a half pound of rotating mass (430 vs. 560 grams per tire).
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jockstick
47 posts
#12Apr 22, 2020, 3:17 PM
I am really tempted by TB, but found some clearance pics and don't think 29x2.1 would comfortably fit in the Carbonda 696 frame, as well not being great on my 19mm rims. Here's some pics of the 27.5x2.1 TB (on wider rims) on my frameset.
https://forum.ridinggravel.com/post/chinese-carbon-gravel-build-carbonda-8254658?pid=1309292118&random=640

I think I will try the Resolute and save up for a 650b wheelset.

ccand51997 wrote:It is a 42mm tire vs. a 52mm tire, so a lot less float and traction. Speedwise, I would say the two are very close. The knobs on the Resolute are bigger than the TB despite being a much smaller tire. I can send you a Resolute if you want to try one and you can decide how much you think it is worth to you. My use for tires in the 38-42mm range is low.

Will send you a DM!
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chas
1,305 posts
#13Apr 22, 2020, 4:59 PM
jockstick wrote:I am really tempted by TB, but found some clearance pics and don't think 29x2.1 would comfortably fit in the Carbonda 696 frame, as well not being great on my 19mm rims. Here's some pics of the 27.5x2.1 TB (on wider rims) on my frameset.
https://forum.ridinggravel.com/post/chinese-carbon-gravel-build-carbonda-8254658?pid=1309292118&random=640

That may be a good way to go. I love the TB, but those lugs take up some room!

I find the TB to roll fast enough steady state, but compared to the G-One they feel slow. They accelerate slow, they make noise, and they have a LOT of drag when cornering. But in a straight line they are OK. They make my bike feel like a truck (or a MTB). Still, on gravel I have nothing to complain about. They are fast there.

On the road, the ramblers or G-one are a LOT more nimble. Ramblers come in 45mm size, so that might work for you.

I only use the TB when it is dry, because I don't have any clearance with them. The Furious Fred (50mm) gives me more clearance, and rides like a large Rambler or G-One. Its a cheater tire - super fast.

I don't use the TB if there is any pavement. Its handling is too slow and sloppy in those conditions.
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Slim
300 posts
#14Apr 22, 2020, 5:43 PMedited
[QUOTE username=ljsmith userid=4757441 postid=1311300487]

I've used both the Speed and Allround and don't really see much difference, though I do not use a power meter so take that for what its worth. There was a German magazine that did rolling resistance tests and found that the Speed and Allroad give basically the same rolling resistance, numbers are below.

QUOTE]

what magazine and issue was that? I’d like to read that article.

edit, found it:
https://www.roadbike.de/rennrad-parts/11-gravel-reifen-im-test/
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chas
1,305 posts
#15Apr 23, 2020, 11:31 AM
Slim wrote:

what magazine and issue was that? I’d like to read that article.

edit, found it:
https://www.roadbike.de/rennrad-parts/11-gravel-reifen-im-test/

yeah, I posted a thread on it here. I bought the article since it had more detail on it. Interestingly, most of the tires had the same rolling resistance (25-26watt) except for the fastest and the slowest.
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Slim
300 posts
#16Apr 23, 2020, 12:08 PMedited
@chas, I bought it too.
Interesting in that pic about tread, is that the road tire (S-one), seems a lot faster, but if you look closer, you see that they ran it at much higher relative pressure.
The 25mm road tire was tested with 7 bar, so the identical relative pressure in the 40mm gravel tires would be 4.4 bar, much higher than the 3.5 they used.
If you dropped the road tire to the equivalent pressure, it would have higher rolling resistance, so the difference of 10 watts they claim is not correct.
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ccand51997
265 posts
#17Apr 23, 2020, 10:28 PM
Slim wrote:
@chas, I bought it too.
Interesting in that pic about tread, is that the road tire (S-one), seems a lot faster, but if you look closer, you see that they ran it at much higher relative pressure.
The 25mm road tire was tested with 7 bar, so the identical relative pressure in the 40mm gravel tires would be 4.4 bar, much higher than the 3.5 they used.
If you dropped the road tire to the equivalent pressure, it would have higher rolling resistance, so the difference of 10 watts they claim is not correct.

Every time I go out testing tires I like to throw in a GP4000 as a control tire but I don't ever put more than 60psi in the tire. It never blows away the other tires. The last time I did it again a Conti Raceking (one new, one with the center knobs worn off), Schwalbe G-One allround, and a G-one speed all the tires finished the runs between 5 min 12 sec and 5:21. The 4000 had two of the three fastest times, but the Raceking was one of the top 3.
I've gone to using the Raceking on the back because it will take me anywhere and isn't really any slower than my road tires. Plus, running it at 20 psi, it seems to last forever. Road purists would scoff at running such a big tire saying it was heavy, but I never understand that argument. Anything that is heavier may take more energy to accelerate (cyclist/mathematicians have shown it is negligible. Like fractions of a watt) but even if it was significant then once it is rolling it will hold speed better than a light tire.
In any case, arguing against weight-weenyism in cycling is a good way to get flamed because it is so ingrained in the culture, but I think more testing will show that big tires are not a disadvantage.
1
Underdog
1 posts
#18Apr 24, 2020, 5:11 AM
Check out the Continental Double fighter III tires. I have a pair on my Giant Fathom 1 and they roll very well on pavement and gravel, mine are 27.5x2.0 but they come in several other sizes as well.
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imwjl
304 posts
#19Apr 25, 2020, 4:49 AM
Clement/Donnelly MSO 50 is the tire for great on road rolling with MTB confidence off of pavement. Good on snow is a bonus. All time great tire.
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JWB475
154 posts
#20Apr 25, 2020, 10:39 AMedited
I am really not a weight weenie (well maybe just a little bit), ride whatever you want and what you enjoy.

But do the Donelly Xplor MSO 50 really weigh 794 grams a tire?
https://www.donnellycycling.com/products/xplor-mso-700-x-50-tubeless-ready-clincher?variant=1595510620178

The 27.5 x 2.8" Maxxis Rekons on my fatbike with ginormous knobs weigh less than that.

I don't think I would want to work that hard on my gravel bike to keep it rolling...
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