I'm running my first ever tubeless tires and having a persistent problem that I don't know how to fix, and don't know if it's actually normal or not.
I've got some specialized Pathfinders on dt swiss r460db rims. I had a pretty rough time getting the bead to seat initially, which could definitely be due to my not knowing what I'm doing.
Here's my actual problem: I'm getting a buildup of sealant all around the bead such that if the tires become unseated (say a bad flat or changing tires), I cannot remount them. I have to spend literally hours painstakingly scraping the buildup off with my thumbnail. I have tried other tools like knives, scrapers, solvents, etc, and the thumbnail is consistently the best worst tool.
Is this buildup normal? Is there a better way to get it off? I have tried all the tips and techniques I've found on the net for mounting tubeless tires, and still can't get them back on, even with my compressor unless I scrape it off. Makes me watch to ditch tubeless (out build more wheels for different tires).
The buildup of sealant on the bead is normal. However I find it usually takes years for the buildup to cause issues. There is no easy way to remove old sealant. I put the tire under a stream of very hot water and scrub with the abrasive side of a dish sponge. It takes about 20 minutes to remove all the old sealant, and my hands and arms are pretty tired after doing a set of tires.
That doesn't sound normal. If you really want to, you can put a skinnystripper (latex strip) between the tire and the wheel. This will help it seal, make it a lot easier to mount& seal (I always just use a floor pump), and ensure there is no latex anywhere on your wheel. Or just use tubes (unless you really like the comfort from low pressure).
re-reading your post, I'm getting the impression that your rim bed is too small a diameter for your tires. There are no decent standards in this area, so rim/tire matching is kind of hit and miss. So - to fix this problem I'm thinking you need another layer of rim tape to build up the diameter of your rim bed. this will make the tire easier to seat, and should address the latex leakage problem you are having.
Are you having trouble getting the tires back on the rim because they are tight, or having trouble getting the tire to seal / inflate initially because of all the old junk on the bead?
@zen_: in having trouble getting them to seal/inflate. I can can pretty easily get the tires into my rims with just my hands.
@chas: thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into the skinny stripper, and I'll definitely ads some more rim tape, as that is a solution I can try with materials I've got on hand. When I built the wheels (my first), I tried to research if the wheels and rims were compatible, but as you note, aside from the"tubeless ready" standard and the rim width, I couldn't find much info.
@ljsmith: thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely try that when I clean up the tires.
Setting up GravelKings on my older HED rims with actual rim tape was almost impossible between the fit being a little too lose and / or the tape leaving too much of a center channel depression. The first time I mounted (new) tires, I had to use every trick in the book with a compressor, tube to set the bead in, and a strap around the tire to force it snugger. It was really frustrating, to the point where I couldn't believe people actually thought this was a good idea.
After simply switching to thicker Gorilla tape, the job is so easy now that even with old tires that have stretched a bit, and with beads that are covered in sealant globs, I can usually set them back up with a normal floor pump after opening the tires up to refresh sealant. If it's a nightmare to get the Gorilla tape residue off the rims when that needs to be replaced, I may switch to multiple layers of rim tape though.
I used to have a lot of trouble getting tubeless tires to seat until I switched to Velocity Velotape, and a compressor. The Velotape is very thin and slick, and helps the tire bead to move into the right spot. At the compressor side I use a blower attachment with a barb on the end, and use a plastic tube from the barb to fitting down around the outside of the presta valve. Not sure about the size of tube, but seems common, mine was found inside a pump sprayer I had laying around, eg. https://www.homedepot.com/p/307766754
edit: My Spinergy GX wheels came from the factory taped with what looks like a yellow version of the Velotape, and had no issues seating a tire on them either. It could be WTB TCS tape maybe? @spinergypaul ?
zen_ wrote:Setting up GravelKings on my older HED rims with actual rim tape was almost impossible between the fit being a little too lose and / or the tape leaving too much of a center channel depression. The first time I mounted (new) tires, I had to use every trick in the book with a compressor, tube to set the bead in, and a strap around the tire to force it snugger. It was really frustrating, to the point where I couldn't believe people actually thought this was a good idea.
After simply switching to thicker Gorilla tape, the job is so easy now that even with old tires that have stretched a bit, and with beads that are covered in sealant globs, I can usually set them back up with a normal floor pump after opening the tires up to refresh sealant. If it's a nightmare to get the Gorilla tape residue off the rims when that needs to be replaced, I may switch to multiple layers of rim tape though.
@Evan_M what @zen_ Is referring to here and you saying your tires are really easy to install are your problems. If the tire is easily installed then it won’t be tight enough on the rim bed to become inflated. Air will just escape every time you try to inflate. I had the same issue, tried every trick on YouTube, took it to my shop, and nothing worked. I eventually put sealant into a tube and installed the tube but once this tire is done I will add a second layer of tape OR use the rim strips made by Bontrager for the wheel (my shop recommended tape over the rim strips to make installation easier but obviously this backfired. I did install the tires myself with a floor pump when new but my problem occurred, only on one tire, when I was rotating them). Using the rim strip will make tire installation more of a challenge but there will be no seating issues.The fact that I could easily install a tube also tells me that the space in there is too large to seat a tubeless tire.
If you’re using rim tape you can try adding a second layer which will effectively make the rim bed space slightly smaller and your tires fit tighter. As to the Gorilla tape, I’ve not tried it but my shop told me that the adhesive on it will come off due to the sealant and eventually make a big mess.
Good luck with it. Tubeless does have some challenges but I haven’t flatted in several years after decades of ~10 flats per year on normal tubed tires. The trade off is worth it to me.
Evan_M wrote: @chas: thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into the skinny stripper, and I'll definitely ads some more rim tape, as that is a solution I can try with materials I've got on hand. When I built the wheels (my first), I tried to research if the wheels and rims were compatible, but as you note, aside from the"tubeless ready" standard and the rim width, I couldn't find much info.
Thanks all for the suggestions. I added two layers of rim tape and have been able to seat the tire now, so it seems those who suggested it might be a poor combination of rim and tire are correct.
Hi, Another newbie issue. I just setup my Vittoria Terreno Zeros TNT on Fulcrum Rapid Red 3 wheels (tape preinstalled). Seating the rear tire took more effort than front and once I started pumping air, i could hear the popping and looks like they have seated well. I haven't put any sealant yet and I notice that without the sealant, both tires lose pressure well within an hour. Is this normal? My road wheelset are Mavic Ksyriums with Yksion UST tires that came pre installed and I did not notice such a significant drop in pressure before I put sealant in.
Those UST tire/wheel systems are designed to be like a car; holding air without any sealant. The vast majority of "tubless ready" systems require sealant to function properly. Perfectly normal.
OP: Forgive me if I missed something, as I didn't read the whole thread - are you sure you actually seated your tires? If you just pumped them to riding pressures, perhaps not. When I install new tires I run them up to 80ish to be sure they are really seated, and depending upon the tire, that's what it really takes to get it done. Then I let all of it out and add the sealant through the valve stem. I've never really had sealant leaking past the bead as I recall.
Many tubeless tires have the equivalents of a tube in their construction and will hold air with no sealant - although the light weight tires do not (and will often seep sealant when new). These will hold air overnight.
Personally, I check the whole rim to make sure the tire is seated evenly. sometimes even at high pressure, I'll hear a "pop" several minutes after the initial mounting. I've had some tires that will not fully seat without some soap to help them get onto the bead properly.
The tricky part is getting the valve to seat well - I think this is where the air usually leaks out, even with an air tight tire that is well seated.
pritish8287 wrote:Hi, Another newbie issue. I just setup my Vittoria Terreno Zeros TNT on Fulcrum Rapid Red 3 wheels (tape preinstalled). Seating the rear tire took more effort than front and once I started pumping air, i could hear the popping and looks like they have seated well. I haven't put any sealant yet and I notice that without the sealant, both tires lose pressure well within an hour. Is this normal? My road wheelset are Mavic Ksyriums with Yksion UST tires that came pre installed and I did not notice such a significant drop in pressure before I put sealant in.
Like others have said, if properly seated, the vast majority of tires will hold air for much longer than an hour without sealant. I usually expect ~4 pops, and these are always loud and a little disconcerting. I still stand back and to the side when I hit 'em with the air compressor. lol...
I am curious though, you said the rims were pre-taped. Are you sure they were taped with tubeless tape? My stock rims came taped, but not with tubeless tape as I had been led to believe, so I had to pull the stock tape and re-tape using Stan's and everything mounted up just fine.
Sorry for delayed response. So, I did pump air using floor pump and I did hear 3-4 pops per tyre. That being said, it definitely seems to be bead seating issue because today I tried pumping air with compressor and after 30 minutes or so, there was a drop in pressure. When I press on the side walls, I still hear air escaping,
as far as the rim tape goes, the fulcrums came with factory installed Fulcrum rim Tape.
I am still not convinced this is a bead seating issue, but that is easy to check. Even if the tire has 0psi in it, you should still be able to check both sides of the bead by picking it up and spinning it, while watching the tire. All tires will have some kind of bead marker or molding strip that should be an even distance above the rim edge for the entire circumference. It won't be perfect, but it will be very close. Any spots that the bead hasn't popped up will be painfully obvious. And if that's the case, you can insert a tube or just use some of the other tricks mentioned (higher pressure, etc) to get the beads to seat. In my experience, 100% of the leaking has occurred through the valve stem seating (after the beads are set). After adding sealant, this gets sealed up in pretty short order. I have been using E6000 adhesive to pre-form a seal around the rubber valve stem stopper, which seems to help a bit. I know others have used some silicone rtv or gasket material as well. The only wheel/valve system that I was able to seal WITHOUT sealant was a Roval mtb wheelset. The valve stem stopped was machined PERFECTLY to fit the rim channel, and it was so tight I had to tap it with the wrench to get it in! (called the LBS to make sure everything was correct and it was actually supposed to happen this way before doing so)
Folks... so I tried the soapy water technique and if I press the side walls, I see bubbles in some sections! Not entire circumference, only some sections. Both tires keep losing pressure, the front one at much quicker rate than rear. Now I am thinking it’s high time to put the sealant in and hoping that stops the leak
