Did I make the right decision choosing 22 inner width rims instead of 25?

28 replies · 1,872 views

fuzzballseven
8 posts
#1May 1, 2021, 7:26 PM
Hello everyone,

I'm having wheels built, and opted for these 22mm inner width Astral Wanderlust rims. I could've chosen the wider Astral Outback rims -- in fact, the wheelbuilder suggested them -- but for some reason I felt they'd be too wide. Now, I'm not sure.

So far, I've ridden mostly on pavement, with a bit of crushed gravel and hard-packed dirt mixed in, but would like to be able to tackle more mixed terrain. Nothing too rough right now, which is why I'm looking at 650b tires from Rene Herse -- such as the 42mm Babyshoe Pass and 38mm Loup Loup Pass. Can't really see myself going narrower than 38mm.

However, I'd also like to be able to run wider 650b tires, like the Rene Herse Switchback Hill TC Tire, or 47mm WTB Horizon.

I feel pretty confident that the 22mm inner width rims I selected will be fine with 38 to 42mm tires -- 42mm is pretty much smack dab in the middle of the tire chart found on the Wanderlust page.

My concern is that 22mm isn't wide enough for the bigger aforementioned tires. I know they'll fit on the rim, but how will they feel and handle, as far as cornering, comfort and ability to run lower pressures is concerned?

Many thanks.
0
Mark_S
144 posts
#2May 2, 2021, 2:38 AMedited
You don't mention your height and weight - I suspect most people who opt for 650b are either very small and will use low volume tires for mixed riding of the type you are doing now (in which case an i22 rim would probably be ideal and 38-42c tires very sufficient) or else they may not be small in stature but they want the high volume of 47c for trails or for loaded touring.

Perhaps you could say a bit more about why you chose 650b so that advice from those who use that diameter (I don't), and who do your type of riding can be more precise to your circumstances.

Most who need such a wide range as 38-47mm would probably use two wheel sets, meaning wider 650b rims f and narrower 700c rims. For my road-biased riding I'd definitely not like 47c, and I'm plenty happy off-road on my 42c tires. At the 38c end, i22 rims are going to be perfect.

If it were me, and the wheels were in production already, I'd trust the fact that the wheel builder advertises that the rim can accept tires bigger than 47c and not worry about it. Much depends upon your weight, your riding and the tire construction but I don't think you'd be going to extremes with a 47c tire. Perhaps just bias toward something with robust sidewalls for your peace of mind. If your riding ends up road-biased, my guess is you'll bin the 47s anyway.

If it gives you any peace of mind, my HT MTB has thin-walled 57c XC tires on i25 rims and I ride it really hard downhill on rocky trails at 6'4" and 230lbs, using 25psi (tubeless of course).
1
stu
646 posts
#3May 2, 2021, 2:56 AMedited
I tried supple 48 mm tires on 21 mm rims and found they wandered a bit on pavement. Not a big deal but noticeable. If you're running stiffer tires or higher pressures or for any off-road use I think 47 mm tires on 22 mm rims would be fine.

My personal preference is for wider rims. My 25 mm rims are only a few grams more than 22 mm rims and they've been fine with a variety of tires between 32 mm and 50 mm.

FWIW the DT chart says 22 mm rims are OK with tires from 25 mm to 64 mm and the Mavic chart says from 28 mm to 64 mm so you're well within their safe combinations. DT also lists recommended combinations, 22 mm rim with 28 mm to 34 mm tires and 25 mm rim with 32 mm to 60 mm tires. Both charts start with much wider tires for rims over 25 mm.
0
Jumbo
123 posts
#4May 2, 2021, 6:49 AM▲ Top
I woudn't get hung up on it. I used to run 2.25" tires on i22.5 rims and it worked nicely.
3
fuzzballseven
8 posts
#5May 2, 2021, 10:07 AM
Hi Mark, thanks.

Sorry, I neglected to say that I'm almost 5', 10", and weigh about 155 lbs. Add another 15 to 20 lbs. if my backpack is fully loaded. I opted for 650b because I'm accustomed to 26" wheels, so 27.5" seemed like a nice step up without going as large as 700c. And yes, I'm interested in higher volume tires. I used to ride 32c, then 38c -- and am curious about going larger, though can't imagine going bigger than 47c.

I'm happy to hear that you've had good luck going off-road with 42c tires. A lot of my riding is, as you put it, road-biased, but I enjoy boardwalks and dirt and gravel trails, and would like to explore more such terrain. As far as riding style goes, it depends on the surroundings: cautious when a lot of traffic is around, often switching from road to shoulder to sidewalk, depending on pavement quality, or how clear of snow and ice any given section is -- and sometimes fast and a little aggressive, if I have space to myself.

I occasionally pull a trailer, and would like to tour at some point.

It's reassuring to hear that you ride that hard, at your height and weight, with that combination of rim and tire.

Mark_S wrote:You don't mention your height and weight - I suspect most people who opt for 650b are either very small and will use low volume tires for mixed riding of the type you are doing now (in which case an i22 rim would probably be ideal and 38-42c tires very sufficient) or else they may not be small in stature but they want the high volume of 47c for trails or for loaded touring.

Perhaps you could say a bit more about why you chose 650b so that advice from those who use that diameter (I don't), and who do your type of riding can be more precise to your circumstances.

Most who need such a wide range as 38-47mm would probably use two wheel sets, meaning wider 650b rims f and narrower 700c rims. For my road-biased riding I'd definitely not like 47c, and I'm plenty happy off-road on my 42c tires. At the 38c end, i22 rims are going to be perfect.

If it were me, and the wheels were in production already, I'd trust the fact that the wheel builder advertises that the rim can accept tires bigger than 47c and not worry about it. Much depends upon your weight, your riding and the tire construction but I don't think you'd be going to extremes with a 47c tire. Perhaps just bias toward something with robust sidewalls for your peace of mind. If your riding ends up road-biased, my guess is you'll bin the 47s anyway.

If it gives you any peace of mind, my HT MTB has thin-walled 57c XC tires on i25 rims and I ride it really hard downhill on rocky trails at 6'4" and 230lbs, using 25psi (tubeless of course).
Mark_S
144 posts
#6May 3, 2021, 1:34 AMedited
fuzzballseven wrote:Hi Mark, thanks.

Sorry, I neglected to say that I'm almost 5', 10", and weigh about 155 lbs. Add another 15 to 20 lbs. if my backpack is fully loaded. I opted for 650b because I'm accustomed to 26" wheels, so 27.5" seemed like a nice step up without going as large as 700c. And yes, I'm interested in higher volume tires. I used to ride 32c, then 38c -- and am curious about going larger, though can't imagine going bigger than 47c.

I'm happy to hear that you've had good luck going off-road with 42c tires. A lot of my riding is, as you put it, road-biased, but I enjoy boardwalks and dirt and gravel trails, and would like to explore more such terrain. As far as riding style goes, it depends on the surroundings: cautious when a lot of traffic is around, often switching from road to shoulder to sidewalk, depending on pavement quality, or how clear of snow and ice any given section is -- and sometimes fast and a little aggressive, if I have space to myself.

I occasionally pull a trailer, and would like to tour at some point.

It's reassuring to hear that you ride that hard, at your height and weight, with that combination of rim and tire.

It sounds to me like neither your size nor your preferred riding suggested you needed the 25mm rims for reasons of wheel strength, and the other replies and the charts all endorse 47s on 22mm rims. It's possible that wheel diameter was the more significant choice you made - if your bike was designed around 38-622 like mine was, you'd get back to design geometry (steering, BB height) at larger than 47c (as I recall 47-584 shares the same diameter with 28-622). Good news is 47c sounds ideal for you, and will be a lot of fun when you need high volume and low pressure. I'd love it too if I didn't do 5+ hours of tarmac every week.
0
Charles D
4 posts
#7May 3, 2021, 8:51 AM
Having recently bought 25mm rims to run with 44mm tires I would say I wish I'd stuck with a narrower rim, I feel like you can tune your ride quality and contact patch using tire pressure better with the narrower rim widths.
2
fuzzballseven
8 posts
#8May 3, 2021, 12:29 PM
Thanks for your replies, everyone! I hadn't seen your more recent comments till now, and had in the meantime gone back to the wheelbuilder and told them I wanted i25 rims after all.

I'd probably second-guess my decision no matter what -- self-doubt and overthinking are my specialties! -- but in the end, decided I'd feel more comfortable (even if just psychologically) with a bit more leeway for wide tires.

Reading some of your remarks makes me think I shouldn't have changed my mind, while comments such as @stu's -- that he's run tires as narrow as 32c on an i25 rim without trouble -- and what I've read elsewhere, and heard from the rim manufacturer and wheel builder, seem to validate my choice.

*Shrug*

I guess in the end, I won't know till I try, but should be okay in the 38c to 47/48c tire range, and despite my uncertainty, very much look forward to trying these new wheels out.

Oh, Mark -- going by my weight and riding style, no, I shouldn't need especially strong wheels, though I've somehow managed to destroy a few components, including a White Industries square taper BB, 2 associated cranks, an XMR rear hub and a narrower DT Swiss rim. All were installed by a good mechanic; unless I'm an exceedingly strong rider and don't know it (ha), then I've had bad luck with parts breaking, so a strong wheel is fine by me.

1
stu
646 posts
#9May 3, 2021, 1:03 PM
I think the difference between 22 mm and 25 mm would be hard to notice unless your tires are way out at one extreme, like 25 mm or 75 mm. So you'll be fine either way. But I always favor sturdy parts over lightweight parts since I prefer riding over maintenance and repair. Besides even with lightweight parts I'm slow. 🙁
2
fuzzballseven
8 posts
#10May 3, 2021, 8:39 PM
Thanks, Stu. I guess I should be good then. Given my history of breaking components, I'll be glad to have strong wheels.

stu wrote:I think the difference between 22 mm and 25 mm would be hard to notice unless your tires are way out at one extreme, like 25 mm or 75 mm. So you'll be fine either way. But I always favor sturdy parts over lightweight parts since I prefer riding over maintenance and repair. Besides even with lightweight parts I'm slow. 🙁
0
Mark_S
144 posts
#11May 3, 2021, 11:22 PM
Great - sounds like you are sorted. Enjoy. Now go see if you can break them :-)
0
shiggy
404 posts
#12May 5, 2021, 1:08 PM
https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-18-wide-tires-need-wide-rims/

i mostly agree with Jan
0
chas
1,305 posts
#13May 5, 2021, 3:39 PM
I have 22 and 24mm rims. I use the 24mm rims on 50-54mm tires. Really, it doesn't make much difference. Looks nicer and plumps up my tires a bit.

I've ridden 55mm tires on 15mm rims (which was normal back in the day) and found that the sidewall would collapse at very low pressure and high side loads.

The biggest advantage to running a narrower rim is to have the tire protect the rim (and tire). Too wide a rim will expose too much of the tire sidewall to rocks and other things that can slice your sidewall. And running the 22mm rims with 28mm tires (28mm external on the rims) also caused me to corner on the sidewall sometimes (an extreme side load, but still).

But in your tire range, 22mm works great.
0
ccand51997
265 posts
#14May 5, 2021, 4:20 PM
A company called Pacenti make rim brake tubeless rims. I've never used them so I can't speak to anything else about the product. They don't look like they have much of a bead shelf, though... but I could not find a cross section so it may just be the way they took the pictures.
0
fuzzballseven
8 posts
#15May 5, 2021, 5:09 PM
shiggy wrote:
https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-18-wide-tires-need-wide-rims/

i mostly agree with Jan

I had an interesting talk with the wheelbuilder about that very article. He didn't entirely agree with Jan's take, ha ha. Ah well, it's too late to change my mind now. Wish me luck!
1
fuzzballseven
8 posts
#16May 5, 2021, 5:15 PM
Yes, the sidewall exposure is one thing that concerned me. It's too late for me to go back on my decision now, though, so here's hoping it works out well. I won't be going narrower than 37/38mm tires on these rims, and am interested in some of the 42mm offerings, which should put me in a safe range.

I had conversations with the wheelbuilder and rim manufacturer -- they seem in agreement that my tire range of 37 to 47mm should be good. There should be a sweet spot somewhere in there.

So many choices, so many takes on the subject. Guess I won't know till I try, and I hope it was an okay decision in the end. Worst case scenario, I have the wheels rebuilt, or get another set some day, and keep the first pair for especially wide tires.

chas wrote:I have 22 and 24mm rims. I use the 24mm rims on 50-54mm tires. Really, it doesn't make much difference. Looks nicer and plumps up my tires a bit.

I've ridden 55mm tires on 15mm rims (which was normal back in the day) and found that the sidewall would collapse at very low pressure and high side loads.

The biggest advantage to running a narrower rim is to have the tire protect the rim (and tire). Too wide a rim will expose too much of the tire sidewall to rocks and other things that can slice your sidewall. And running the 22mm rims with 28mm tires (28mm external on the rims) also caused me to corner on the sidewall sometimes (an extreme side load, but still).

But in your tire range, 22mm works great.
0
fuzzballseven
8 posts
#17May 5, 2021, 5:22 PM
Mark_S wrote:Great - sounds like you are sorted. Enjoy. Now go see if you can break them :-)

Thanks! If I manage to break these wheels, I must be cursed. 😃
0
fuzzballseven
8 posts
#18May 5, 2021, 5:26 PM
I also did mean to ask you, stu -- you said you've run tires as narrow as 32mm on 25mm rims. Did you ever encounter issues with sidewall damage, or damage to the rims with that little difference between tire and rim width?

stu wrote:I think the difference between 22 mm and 25 mm would be hard to notice unless your tires are way out at one extreme, like 25 mm or 75 mm. So you'll be fine either way. But I always favor sturdy parts over lightweight parts since I prefer riding over maintenance and repair. Besides even with lightweight parts I'm slow. 🙁
0
stu
646 posts
#19May 5, 2021, 7:06 PM
fuzzballseven wrote:I also did mean to ask you, stu -- you said you've run tires as narrow as 32mm on 25mm rims. Did you ever encounter issues with sidewall damage, or damage to the rims with that little difference between tire and rim width?
I've never in 50 years had sidewall damage and the only rim damage I've ever had was from little stones stuck in rim brake pads. Maybe I'm lucky, more likely I'm overly cautious.

I don't ride the GP5000s on rough terrain because I have better tires for that. Those are racing tires designed for wide rims and fast cornering so the tread is wide - I'd have to lean at least 45 degrees to put any of the sidewall on the road. It's now normal for roadies to run 25 mm tires on 20 or 21 mm rims and charts from both DT and Mavic allow (presumably racing) tires down to 28 mm on 25 mm rims.

That said I wouldn't run 32 mm tires with narrow tread or pronounced side blocks on 25 mm rims. I think in general tires with more aggressive tread work better with narrower rims. That's fine with me because anywhere I'd want a more aggressive tread I'd also want a wider tire. So I find a 25 mm rim really versatile. I can use a 32 mm racing tire, a 35 mm training/commuting tire, a 40 mm touring tire, or a 45 mm gravel tire all with good results.

However I have found exceptions. The 42 mm Shikoro has really narrow tread and looks a little iffy on a 25 mm rim. But the 48 mm Shikoro has much wider tread, more than proportional to the carcass width. And the 40 mm Almotion is just fine even on a 30 mm rim. So I have to look at the tire.

Now a 22 mm rim will be a bit lighter and will accommodate all of the aforementioned tires as well as 28 mm racing tires (and 25 mm if you like living on the edge). But the 25 mm rim will be a little stronger and work a little better with tires over 45 mm.
0
chas
1,305 posts
#20May 6, 2021, 5:20 PM
ccand51997 wrote:A company called Pacenti make rim brake tubeless rims. I've never used them so I can't speak to anything else about the product. They don't look like they have much of a bead shelf, though... but I could not find a cross section so it may just be the way they took the pictures.

They have to have a bead shelf if they are hookless (if not, then its optional)
0

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