Straight pull vs J-bend for heavy rider wheel build

Hi Nubster ---  Your friend bobknh here. I'm smiling and enjoying my morning coffee, and having a sense of dejavu. Yup - there are advantages and disadvantages to straight pull vs j bend spokes. But, like other topics we have discussed, it is hard to discuss these advantages and disadvantages out of the context of the wheels, tires, and the ride and rider who will be using them. It sounds to me from this, and earlier posts, that you are a big guy, planning on riding mostly on unpaved and some times challenging surfaces. In that case, my advice is to see if you can find an experienced custom wheel builder (good luck -they are dying breed). The likelihood is that if you are lucky enough to find a good wheel builder, you'll end up with a high spoke count wheel using traditional j-bend spokes. These wheels will outlast any factory wheel, and will give you many years of trouble free service. And, when one of your spokes inevitably breaks, you'll be able to get a replacement in any good bike shop. If you can't find a local wheel builder of good repute, there are some wheel builders who you can contact online. I haven't used them, so I can't comment. But, perhaps some other posters can give you suggestions.
Here is an example:http://www.billmouldwheels.com/wheels.html . Again, I have never used this company, but I agree with his philosophy on wheels. You may want to check him out.

Too bad his wheel building course costs so much. His shop is only about 2 hours from me.

Nubster wrote:Too bad his wheel building course costs so much. His shop is only about 2 hours from me.

Yes - the course looks very interesting -- provided you can afford the time and expense. I built one set of wheels back in the day, using Jobst Brandt's book on wheels. BTW -- he died recently. There was a very good article about him in VeloNews. My self built wheels were OK, but it takes time and experience to build really superior wheels. If you are only 2 hours away from Bill's shop, it would certainly be worth a call and a visit to get his advice. From the info. on his web site , he sounds like he is the real deal. You may be surprised that you can get a custom set of wheels from him, purpose built for your needs, at a very competitive cost. Like I said, guys like him are a dying breed. 

I would never build a 28 spoke (or fewer) wheel set for a 270+lb rider. At 100lb less I find 28 spokes to be marginal at times for myself, and I am pretty easy on wheels. Do not track as well, a bit too much give in hard cornering, more issues during a ride if a spoke breaks.

I'd prefer 32 but I've never had any problems on 28...even on my mountain bikes.

I had a Kona mountain bike with XT hubs and wheels that used straight pull spokes.  In 5 years, I broke one spoke!!!!  I also broke that frame so I was impressed with the wheels.  However, those spokes were hard to find and were expensive, something like $10+ per spoke (I'm a little hazy but I think it was closer $20 per spoke).  The XT wheels were threaded and the spoke nipples screwed into the rim.  

Like you, I've broken numerous "j" spokes at the bend by the hub so I think when I upgrade my wheels, I'll try straight pull spokes.  But I'll also order extra spokes at the time I buy the wheels.

Actually...I've never broken a spoke. Even as heavy as 320 pounds on a bike with crappy stock machine built wheels on nasty rocky and rooty trails. Never a broken spoke. I just know that most breaks are at the bend which is why it just seems that straight pull would make sense...unless there was some other reason to avoid them as a heavier rider. 

As far as cost...you can get standard spokes for about $.75 each and straight pull for $.85...that's DT Swiss Competition double butted 2.0/1.8/2.0 in both.

At this point...I'm a huge fan of Hope hubs. They have a 32h straight pull hub but only in 6 bolt. I'm really curious about trying DT Swiss hubs and they have straight pull with centerlock but only in 28h. So I really want centerlock, I want to try straightpull, so the debate is 28h vs 32h. The centerlock vs 6 bolt isn't a deal killer but I'd like to go centerlock if possible. So that's where I'm at right now. Just trying to decide how many spokes I want to run which will dictate the hub I go with.

All this discussion is great. Bike wheel engineering is amazingly complex. In my earlier post on this topic I mentioned the recently deceased Jobst Brandt and his iconic book "The Bicycle Wheel" :http://smile.amazon.com/Bicycle-Wheel-3rd-Jobst-Brandt/dp/0960723668?ie=UTF8&keywords=the%20bicycle%20wheel&qid=1463402545&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1 . I strongly recommend this book to anyone who wants to understand just how wonderful and complex the bicycle wheel is as a system. Once you read this book, you'll understand why the spoked bicycle wheel, which many of us take for granted, is such an amazing invention; and why an expert hand built wheel is superior to any factory automatic machine built product.
Here is the article in VeloNews about Brandt which I mentioned earlier: http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/news/cycling-innovator-and-author-jobst-brandt-dies-at-80_369134

Nubster wrote:Actually...I've never broken a spoke. Even as heavy as 320 pounds on a bike with crappy stock machine built wheels on nasty rocky and rooty trails. Never a broken spoke. I just know that most breaks are at the bend which is why it just seems that straight pull would make sense...unless there was some other reason to avoid them as a heavier rider. 

As far as cost...you can get standard spokes for about $.75 each and straight pull for $.85...that's DT Swiss Competition double butted 2.0/1.8/2.0 in both.

At this point...I'm a huge fan of Hope hubs. They have a 32h straight pull hub but only in 6 bolt. I'm really curious about trying DT Swiss hubs and they have straight pull with centerlock but only in 28h. So I really want centerlock, I want to try straightpull, so the debate is 28h vs 32h. The centerlock vs 6 bolt isn't a deal killer but I'd like to go centerlock if possible. So that's where I'm at right now. Just trying to decide how many spokes I want to run which will dictate the hub I go with.

\nAvailability is the concern, not cost. You can find a useable J-bend spoke almost anywhere. Straight pull--good luck with that.

Nubster wrote:Actually...I've never broken a spoke. Even as heavy as 320 pounds on a bike with crappy stock machine built wheels on nasty rocky and rooty trails. Never a broken spoke. I just know that most breaks are at the bend which is why it just seems that straight pull would make sense...unless there was some other reason to avoid them as a heavier rider. 

As far as cost...you can get standard spokes for about $.75 each and straight pull for $.85...that's DT Swiss Competition double butted 2.0/1.8/2.0 in both.

At this point...I'm a huge fan of Hope hubs. They have a 32h straight pull hub but only in 6 bolt. I'm really curious about trying DT Swiss hubs and they have straight pull with centerlock but only in 28h. So I really want centerlock, I want to try straightpull, so the debate is 28h vs 32h. The centerlock vs 6 bolt isn't a deal killer but I'd like to go centerlock if possible. So that's where I'm at right now. Just trying to decide how many spokes I want to run which will dictate the hub I go with.

Hi, sorry I'm late to this thread, but I've been super busy lately and haven't spent much time on the forum.  Here's what I think:

Don't do straight pull.  It doesn't offer any advantage over j-bend besides a unique look, and maybe lighter hubs.  A properly built wheel with j-bend spokes will last a long, long, long time.  Spokes that break at the j-bend don't break because of the bend.

At 320lbs, if you've never broken a spoke, you just haven't been riding that much.  I know plenty of guys half that weight that break spokes on out-of-the-box wheels simply because they log a lot of miles.  You've just been lucky so far!

Hub choice - Centerlock DT's are available in 32H drillings for standard j-bend.  But, I'd want to do a 36H rear for you, which is going to narrow your options a bit.  White Industries offers both centerlock and 6-bolt hubs in a 36H drilling, and Hope offers their Pro 4's in a 36H drilling, as does Hadley.  Hope and Hadley are both 6-bolt.  White Industries and Hadley are both made in the USA and have titanium freehub bodies, Hope is made in the UK and comes stock with an alloy freehub body that big guys have been known to blow out.  But they also offer a stainless steel freehub body that's no extra cost, and it's very reliable for big strong guys.

Rims - the 36H rear is going to limit your rim choices, but the Velocity Aileron is offered in a 36H drilling, and it's a good stout rim that works well for big guys.

Yeah...I guess 2000+ miles a year isn't really that much riding.

I already ordered hubs anyways. Just went with standard Hope Pro 4 hubs, 32h. That's plenty IMO. I'm currently 270 and dropping. 

While I wanted centerlock, the DT Swiss just didn't end up being nearly as great a deal as they appear at face value...when you consider the cost of upgrading the ratchet to 36t or 54t. To me, 18 poe is unacceptable so the upgrade would have been mandatory. So...I went with Hope. They are great looking, easy to work on, I already have all the bearing tools to do what I need to do with them, quality is outstanding, and customer service when needed is stellar. And 44 poe won't leave me wanting/needing more.

Rims will be the WTB Frequency Team i23.