GAP/C&O trail

20 replies · 883 views

Chris18
41 posts
#1Nov 23, 2023, 8:31 PM
My wife and I plan to ride the Great Allegheny Path (GAP) and C&O trail this summer from Pittsburgh to Washington DC. I've heard this trail is really muddy in general, despite recent precipitation, due to the "two ruts with grass in the middle" conditions. Can anyone verify that? We plan on doing about 70 miles/day for 5 days to complete the trail. We rode the Erie Canal trail last year, pretty easily knocking out 60-80 miles/day, depending on where we wanted to stay. Has anyone done both of these trails? Any comparisons? I see the GAP has more climbing than the Erie trail, but am not concerned with that. More concerned with ability to ride 70 miles in muddy conditions.

Random info I've read on the trail in general:
Very muddy on sides, with grass in center.
Wear Teva or Keen sandals, since sneakers will get soaked.
Fenders are a must.
Plenty of places to stay and/or eat along the trail. My wife won't camp. Hotels or B&Bs are very much in our future.

Anyone have an itinerary they've done at around 70 miles/day or anything like that? We're not familiar with the area at all, being from NY. We have family in Silver Spring, MD who we will likely stay with for our one night in the DC area before heading back to NY.

Any help/info above and beyond answers to these questions greatly appreciated!
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RLB
97 posts
#2Nov 25, 2023, 8:04 AM
Pittsburgh to Cumberland on the GAP is all crushed gravel or asphalt so no mud just white splatter on any newer gravel sections. The C&O can get messy but most of the horror stories are outdated or exaggerated. The last 5-6 years they have resurfaced a lot of it. The double track can hold water but its hard packed gravel lanes so you get dirty but not what I would call muddy. Your not sinking into mud or hitting anything impassible on 40/42c+ tires unless you ride the center or shoulder. (oddly many do, and it can be pretty entertaining to watch 🙂 )

Fenders would be nice I never used them, I always wear bike shoes that dry fast, with some planning tons of places to stay. They are both flat, I think the GAP has a some elevation but its spread out over a distance you hardly know your climbing.

I do the trail often and usually include the C&O as the starting point of many trips. they are both very nice rides
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Chris18
41 posts
#3Nov 25, 2023, 10:56 AM
RLB wrote:
Pittsburgh to Cumberland on the GAP is all crushed gravel or asphalt so no mud just white splatter on any newer gravel sections. The C&O can get messy but most of the horror stories are outdated or exaggerated. The last 5-6 years they have resurfaced a lot of it. The double track can hold water but its hard packed gravel lanes so you get dirty but not what I would call muddy. Your not sinking into mud or hitting anything impassible on 40/42c+ tires unless you ride the center or shoulder. (oddly many do, and it can be pretty entertaining to watch 🙂 )

Fenders would be nice I never used them, I always wear bike shoes that dry fast, with some planning tons of places to stay. They are both flat, I think the GAP has a some elevation but its spread out over a distance you hardly know your climbing.

I do the trail often and usually include the C&O as the starting point of many trips. they are both very nice rides
Thanks! Glad to hear it's not that muddy as the story I read. The Erie trail is mostly crushed gravel and you get the dust all over everything. Many first sips of water were spat out with what I not-so-affectionately nicknamed gravel tea.

Looking at 5 days around 70 miles/day, so my planned stays are overnight in Pittsburgh near the GAP's upper end (after driving to PGH), Ohiopyle, Cumberland, Fort Frederick, Point of Rocks & DC. Those all look like big enough towns to stay in and have something to do in the evening, but not too big.
1
RLB
97 posts
#4Nov 25, 2023, 4:49 PM
Chris18 wrote:
Thanks! Glad to hear it's not that muddy as the story I read. The Erie trail is mostly crushed gravel and you get the dust all over everything. Many first sips of water were spat out with what I not-so-affectionately nicknamed gravel tea.

Looking at 5 days around 70 miles/day, so my planned stays are overnight in Pittsburgh near the GAP's upper end (after driving to PGH), Ohiopyle, Cumberland, Fort Frederick, Point of Rocks & DC. Those all look like big enough towns to stay in and have something to do in the evening, but not too big.
LOL I switched to screw off lid bottles after my first trip, eating dust/sand got old fast.

The C&O can get messy but in my opinion its not the kind of mud you need to stress about (not the kind that sticks and needs scraped from the tires and drivetrain every few miles) Its mucky thick water spray, its not the most fun but not a deal breaker 🙂.

The trails are basically flat, but keep in mind things can get real steep once you exit for the hotel... 8.8 miles up and over rolling hills from Rockport PA was far more challenging than the 86 flat trail miles I did the day before. I camp so don't have to venture far from the trail other than midday Sheetz stops.

First image was the bike on a cold rainy trip halfway between Hancock and Cumberland (the roughest/natural part of the C&O) a muddy mess but not caked on peanut butter mud or anything. The second pic is from a hot, dry, and dusty trip a hundred feet off the GAP between Ohiopyle and Rockwood. I really like the trails, always my first and last trips of the season.

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Chris18
41 posts
#5Nov 25, 2023, 5:24 PM
Great info. Thanks!
We had similar experiences riding the Erie Canal Trail- it's almost all downhill, until you get off for the hotel or a store. On our last full day we had one hellacious climb, a steep descent and then another big climb as the last 2.5 miles of a 75 mile day. I forget the actual elevation change, but I really regretted listening to the mapping app that said to get off the trail and onto the road to save like 0.3 miles. There would have been one steep climb, but not two. And the descent was scary. 55 MPH area by an Amazon distribution center, so tons of trucks were flying past and it was just about dark.

Looking forward to this trip!
1
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#6Dec 12, 2023, 9:08 AM
Here's my take on the C & O Canal. If I was doing it I wouldn't do it without fenders. If it's dry it's fine. If it rains it's a mess. You have to know that the trail is completely flat so it has no place for the water to drain off. I would have to do some digging but I did an 80 miler from Williamsport Md. on an out and back. I got 40 miles from the car and it started raining. Until I got back to car my jersey was a total mess. Yes you can ride on the grass but that is a mess also. So do you want to take a chance and hope it doesn't rain during your trip or do you want to come prepared and have fenders on and not worry about it. With a loaded bike what's a few ounces for better protection.

Zman
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Chris18
41 posts
#7Dec 12, 2023, 9:54 AM
Zurichman wrote:
Here's my take on the C & O Canal. If I was doing it I wouldn't do it without fenders. If it's dry it's fine. If it rains it's a mess. You have to know that the trail is completely flat so it has no place for the water to drain off. I would have to do some digging but I did an 80 miler from Williamsport Md. on an out and back. I got 40 miles from the car and it started raining. Until I got back to car my jersey was a total mess. Yes you can ride on the grass but that is a mess also. So do you want to take a chance and hope it doesn't rain during your trip or do you want to come prepared and have fenders on and not worry about it. With a loaded bike what's a few ounces for better protection.

Zman
Thanks. Fenders were in the plan.

Overall plan:
Day 0 (no riding). Drive to Pittsburgh (one way rental). Stay over near the trail head. Drop off minivan at Enterprise first thing in the morning, ride like 0.5 miles to the trailhead, take some pics and be on our way southeast!
Day 1. Ride to Ohiopyle.
Day 2. Ride to Cumberland. Get photos at GAP end/C&O beginning.
Day 3. Ride to Hancock.
Day 4. Ride to Harpers Ferry.
Day 5. Ride to DC. Photos at C&O terminus. Stay near Amtrak station.
Day 6. Ride to Amtrak station and take train to NYC. From there, we can either take Metronorth up near our town, OR ride the Empire State Trail north around 60 miles to our town. Probably opting for the train after 5 days of long rides, but maybe the spirit will take us. Don't need to buy those tickets in advance, so we'll play it by ear that day.
1
RLB
97 posts
#8Dec 12, 2023, 11:38 AM
Chris18 wrote:
Thanks. Fenders were in the plan.

Overall plan:
Day 0 (no riding). Drive to Pittsburgh (one way rental). Stay over near the trail head. Drop off minivan at Enterprise first thing in the morning, ride like 0.5 miles to the trailhead, take some pics and be on our way southeast!
Day 1. Ride to Ohiopyle.
Day 2. Ride to Cumberland. Get photos at GAP end/C&O beginning.
Day 3. Ride to Hancock.
Day 4. Ride to Harpers Ferry.
Day 5. Ride to DC. Photos at C&O terminus. Stay near Amtrak station.
Day 6. Ride to Amtrak station and take train to NYC. From there, we can either take Metronorth up near our town, OR ride the Empire State Trail north around 60 miles to our town. Probably opting for the train after 5 days of long rides, but maybe the spirit will take us. Don't need to buy those tickets in advance, so we'll play it by ear that day.
Ohiopyle is really nice, so nice I kinda go faster than what is considered normal just so I can spend more time in Ohiopyle. Dont overestimate how fast you can get out of Pittsburgh on weekends in great weather and though Ohiopyle, lots of people jogging, walking, slowly cruising around. 75miles can feel more like 100 on busy days **The Mon Wharf is open that will help a ton when leaving PGH

The true end of the C&O is not where everyone thinks it is, tucked away behind a building on a little 50 foot path 🙂

Hancock is awesome, a bike shop, a Sheetz and grocery store to re stock on decent snacks, several local restaurants. The Bunkhouse is part of C&O Bicycles, bunks in a screened in porch with showers, outhouses, fire ring, chairs and tables. Great spot to try a bit of a camping vibe if you are hoteling the trip and also great to get cleaned/repacked up if you are camping the whole trip.

Harpers is nice, lots of history and sit down restaurants... but be prepared to carry your bike up stairs and push it over the bridge (very busy on weekends with good weather) just a few more miles towards DC is Brunswick MD, restaurants, stores, hotel and a great campground with showers and running water clean bathrooms called Brunswick Family Campground.

Between Harpers and DC is Great Falls, you. will want to spend some time checking it out.

I love these trails... done them at normal speed checking out most of the towns on the way, one year I had very little time so I wanted to see how fast I could do them, I start most of my bike trips at Brunswick on the C&O and exit the trail somewhere in the direction I am heading. most of it wide open and its so nice ridding without needing to pay attention for cars or crowds... just cruising along.
Chris18
41 posts
#9Dec 12, 2023, 11:44 AM
Thanks again! Great info.
I figured PGH and DC to have packed trails on weekends. We leave PGH on a Thursday and get into DC on a Monday.
We will be in Harpers Ferry Sunday-Monday. Oh well! Can't plan a totally perfect trip.
1
RLB
97 posts
#10Dec 12, 2023, 11:46 AM
Chris18 wrote:
Thanks again! Great info.
I figured PGH and DC to have packed trails on weekends. We leave PGH on a Thursday and get into DC on a Monday.
We will be in Harpers Ferry Sunday-Monday. Oh well! Can't plan a totally perfect trip.
its not crazy or anything... just takes a bit longer than you would think with people and a walking bridge. have a great trip
1
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#11Dec 12, 2023, 11:48 AMedited
Chris18. I actually was able to find my pic. This was only after a light 10-15 minute rain and happened on my 80 mile 40 out and back from Williamsport Md. They had only called for a slight chance of rain so I didn't even take a rain jacket. This might answer your question on whether you should have fenders on or not. I know after this I wouldn't do it without fenders and I don't ever do fenders on a bike. I hadn't read your recent posts of taking fenders. Smart Move
Pic
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Chris18
41 posts
#12Dec 12, 2023, 12:11 PM
Zurichman wrote:
Chris18. I actually was able to find my pic. This was only after a light 10-15 minute rain and happened on my 80 mile 40 out and back from Williamsport Md. They had only called for a slight chance of rain so I didn't even take a rain jacket. This might answer your question on whether you should have fenders on or not. I know after this I wouldn't do it without fenders and I don't ever do fenders on a bike. I hadn't read your recent posts of taking fenders. Smart Move
Pic
Yeah I'd heard most people end up looking like they had the runs after riding the C&O portion, even if it hadn't rained lately. I may upgrade our fenders. The ones we have are pretty small and just attach with velcro. Kind of emergency use only type ones. We brought them on our Erie Canal trip 2 years ago and never even took them out.
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#13Dec 12, 2023, 12:15 PMedited
Yeah I'd heard most people end up looking like they had the runs after riding the C&O portion, even if it hadn't rained lately.

The reason for that is like I stated earlier. It's so flat with no drainage the water just lays there. So it could be like that for a couple of days after a rain. Yeah I would invest in the really good fenders.

Zman
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Dennis G
6 posts
#14Dec 20, 2023, 9:08 AM
Chris18 wrote:
Thanks! Glad to hear it's not that muddy as the story I read. The Erie trail is mostly crushed gravel and you get the dust all over everything. Many first sips of water were spat out with what I not-so-affectionately nicknamed gravel tea.

Looking at 5 days around 70 miles/day, so my planned stays are overnight in Pittsburgh near the GAP's upper end (after driving to PGH), Ohiopyle, Cumberland, Fort Frederick, Point of Rocks & DC. Those all look like big enough towns to stay in and have something to do in the evening, but not too big.

Zurichman wrote:
Yeah I'd heard most people end up looking like they had the runs after riding the C&O portion, even if it hadn't rained lately.

The reason for that is like I stated earlier. It's so flat with no drainage the water just lays there. So it could be like that for a couple of days after a rain. Yeah I would invest in the really good fenders.

Zman
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Dennis G
6 posts
#15Dec 20, 2023, 9:20 AM
I have to echo all of your recommendations Zman except the camping part I’m not a fan of sleeping on the ground.

Chris, not trying to be a bike snob or anything but 70 miles a day on flat pedals and sneakers? I’d invest in a descent pair of cycling shoes and clip in pedals if I were you they can make riding sooo much nicer. I use a clip on front fender and rear rack and panniers. The bike takes a beating but I stay fairly clean and dry. Just my 2 cents.
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Chris18
41 posts
#16Dec 20, 2023, 9:43 AM
Hi Dennis.
I've had clipless pedals for years on my other bikes (road and mountain). I don't like them for riding with paniers, etc. It's probably from packing poorly to start my previous bikepacking trip, but my packing balance was off the first day and I had a few issues. Weight was all too far back and I stopped at a traffic light going uphill and damn near flipped over backwards! Had I been clipped in, I'd have probably eaten it in front of a ton of people. lol I just got a new rack that will sit farther forward on my bike's rear end. Had one of those "one size fits none" add on racks for bikes without pannier mounts, despite my bike having pannier mounts. I'd gotten a new bike for that trip AFTER buying the rack.

But also, I saw a few cyclists thrown out of a really nice, old restaurant because their cleats were grinding into the old wooden floors. So my sneakers (fairly hard souled cycling sneakers for BMXing) combined with a larger platform pedal work nicely for me. On trips like this, I bring my riding sneakers and a pair of sandals/slides/flip-flops whatever you call them so my feet air out after showering. And the sneakers dry for the next day.

I also drive manual, and nearly had an accident years ago because the cycling shoe cleat slipped on the clutch and I shot forward in a parking lot, so I usually do most of my rail-trail type riding with said cycling sneakers and platforms. It's safer to get to/from the trail in my home town. But thanks for the advice. I know clipless would have their advantages...
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Dennis G
6 posts
#17Dec 20, 2023, 9:52 AM
I guess that’s why opinions are like noses everybody has one😀. Have a good trip and be safe. The GAP/C&O is one of my favorite trails.
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Dennis G
6 posts
#18Dec 21, 2023, 8:59 AM
Chris, let us know how it turns out. I’m thinking about a C&O ride next spring.
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Chris18
41 posts
#19Dec 21, 2023, 10:36 AM
Dennis, We are going late June to early July. Will post an update though, for sure.
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Dennis G
6 posts
#20Jun 5, 2024, 10:11 AM
---------- Forwarded message ---------
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