Help to choose new Gravel or Endurance? bike

42 replies · 7,833 views

automa1971-2
5 posts
#21Jul 3, 2019, 8:50 AM
balles88 wrote:

Do you think it would be enough with 32mm tires? Even less?

And about brakes... Should I take disk brakes? I know there are a lot of discussions about this... maybe I could find bikes with more clearance on those which are mounting these diak brakes.

Yes definitely the Canyon Endurance seems to be a good bike. I have heard as well about the Trek Domane and Specialized Roubaix.. any advice?

Thanks a lot

There really is no logical reason for tires below 32 unless you ride perfect roads in a pro peloton. Speed certainly isn't. Wider tires roll as fast if you invest money into good tires. And rim brakes are really not what you'd want on a gravel bike. Even on a road bike there's not many reasons besides nostalgia to use rim brakes. For the type of road you posted the picture I recommend a 40mm or more tire, can also be a slick unless you ride in the wet season too. There's plenty of interesting blog entries about tire myths etc. here: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-tires-are-slower/
1
jfranci3
126 posts
#22Jul 5, 2019, 7:08 AM
Raul- assuming you get two sets of wheels/tires, the penalty for the gravel bike setup isn’t all that much. It’s mostly splitting hairs. The gravel bike frame will be 500gr heavier and may be geared a bit lower. Aero-wise, the gravel bike is probably 10mm wider only at the top of the fork and seat stays, everything else is the same.
I can do my group road ride on my proper road bike, Trek Emonda ALR, or my Trek Checkpoint SL with 30c Schalbe G-one Speed tires pretty much without a speed penalty. I run into issues over 50kph, because I’m running 1x 42t on the gravel bike. Once you put water bottles and a saddle bag on an endurance bike, it’s not going to be anymore aero, if it ever was.
On soft roads, in my experience the 30-33c tires aren’t very fast unless the dirt looks polished smooth. I recall dropping a full minute on a 7min long strava segment going from a 35c tire to a 42c tire of same makeup on a really smooth, fast dirt path I’ve tried on rod bike tires before.

On AL vs Carbon, for this use case, AL all the way. Modern hydroformed carbon frames ride the same as CF. Fat tires also take away the ride advantage of CF. You’re going to ding and scratch the paint, and bare AL looks much less concerning than exposed CF. The CF frame is 500gr lighter, but you’re not going to notice. My Checkpoint SL with the ISO frame thing doesn’t ride any different than my AL Emonda in the same wheels and tires. The tires, seat post, and handlebars make most of the ride difference.
Jon
2
balles88
30 posts
#23Jul 8, 2019, 10:42 AM
Thanks a lot to everybody for your answers...

So after reading your messages, I think I should consider again the gravel option instead of Endurance in order to avoid any problem with gravel roads like the one I posted in case I need a 40 mm tire...

Thank you!
Raúl

0
chas
1,305 posts
#24Jul 8, 2019, 1:17 PM
Raúl,
32mm would be perfect for that type of road. That is what I use most of the time in the summer and fall. No need to go smaller. I do 40-50Kph (flat, paved) rides on 32mm tires, and I think I have an advantage over everyone else on 23mm tires and road bikes because our roads are horrid (patched, cracked) and I’m at ½ the pressure they are using. Then when there is construction and everyone has to go through single file, I’m just riding on the grass or dirt around everyone.
But, there are sometimes where I’m going on a rougher ride, a longer ride, or just want a change and the smooth ride 40mm tires give – so I have an extra wheelset.
So yes, an endurance bike with 32mm Conti’s or Schwalbes on it will do everything you are asking. Canyon, Specialized, Trek all make excellent bikes in that category. If you want light, fast, and responsive and rarely go over anything rougher than your picture – it will meet your needs perfectly. But, outside of a competitive race, there is no drawback to a bike frame that can take 40mm tires.
1
balles88
30 posts
#25Jul 8, 2019, 3:18 PM
chas wrote:
Raúl,
32mm would be perfect for that type of road. That is what I use most of the time in the summer and fall. No need to go smaller. I do 40-50Kph (flat, paved) rides on 32mm tires, and I think I have an advantage over everyone else on 23mm tires and road bikes because our roads are horrid (patched, cracked) and I’m at ½ the pressure they are using. Then when there is construction and everyone has to go through single file, I’m just riding on the grass or dirt around everyone.
But, there are sometimes where I’m going on a rougher ride, a longer ride, or just want a change and the smooth ride 40mm tires give – so I have an extra wheelset.
So yes, an endurance bike with 32mm Conti’s or Schwalbes on it will do everything you are asking. Canyon, Specialized, Trek all make excellent bikes in that category. If you want light, fast, and responsive and rarely go over anything rougher than your picture – it will meet your needs perfectly. But, outside of a competitive race, there is no drawback to a bike frame that can take 40mm tires.

Thanks Chas!

Your messages are helping a lot!

Yes, for me is now clear that I don't need a tire below 32mm.

The point is if I need much larger tires than 32mm. Most of the times I will on the road, on the city, but as may know, here in Germany we enjoy a lot riding in parks and around lakes.

If understood well, there are no many bikes which could mount a tire much larger than 36mm more or less, so if we are talking about getting 2 different kind of tires (for example 32 and 40) I should get a gravel bike.

Is that your recommendation on this case? A gravel bike to be able of mounting tires of 40mm?

Thanks!!
Raúl
0
TonyM
87 posts
#26Jul 13, 2019, 12:39 AM
For riding in parks and around lakes in Germany you don't need 40mm tires IMHO. 32mm or 35mm should be sufficient depending on the size of the gravel.
1
NoCoGreg
512 posts
#27Jul 15, 2019, 2:31 PM
A few more thoughts...

As others have mentioned, there is little if any additional weight in getting a bike capable of wider tires. Many endurance bikes now fit 35 mm smooth tires, but why limit yourself to only 35mm tires?

Want to have 2 sets of wheels but don't want to bust the budget?

An advantage of using inner tubes is that it is easy to swap out tires. So instead of having two sets of wheels (say 32mm and 40mm), buy a second set of tires & tubes. The downside of tubes is that sealant doesn't work as well as in a tubeless setup. In parts of Colorado where goat heads (aka puncture vine) and other thorns are common I would only recommend a tubeless setup. In the California Santa Cruz mountains I'd use tubes and even forego the sealant. It really depends on where and how you're going to be riding.

Regarding tire width...
A wide tire with a smooth tread and supple casing will roll faster than the skinnier version of that tire. Panaracer, Schwalbe, and Compass offer very fast smooth tires. Skinny tires are faster on smooth hard pavement but on course pavement a wider tire will be faster. As the conditions get rougher and/or softer wider tires will be even faster... And wider tires provide a smoother ride which reduces fatigue and the larger contact area will give better control over cracks in the pavement, sand/gravel, and other hazards.

Regarding AL vs CF:
If you really want a CF frame, I'd suggest going for a lower price component group to get the CF frame. But I ride both CF and AL, and I too am of the opinion that the rims, tires, bars and seatpost all have a great effect on the feel of the bike.

Much of the difference one "feels" with CF vs AL is in the damping of high frequency vibration. And as others noted, a larger volume tire will do the same.

Happy shopping,
Greg

1
chas
1,305 posts
#28Jul 16, 2019, 3:51 PM
Tony M is right. In my experience, 32mm is fine in Germany. But, there is no drawback to getting a bike that takes 40mm tires.

For example, I bought a bike that could take 33 mm tires. Later, when I wanted to to bigger, I couldn't go much bigger. I tried, but the tires rubbed on the frame. So I bought another bike.

I still spend the summers on 32mm tires. But if the day comes when you have the need/desire to go bigger - well you can't if your frame doesn't fit them.

If it is your hearts desire to get the Endurance bike - it can work either way for ya. If you are undecided ("on the fence" in English), the safe bet is the frame that has more flexibility in tire size.
1
automa1971-2
5 posts
#29Jul 18, 2019, 9:17 AM
chas wrote:Tony M is right. In my experience, 32mm is fine in Germany.
That's an interesting statement. How does one define which tire width is suitable per country? Terrain maybe? I'd say you can ride all sorts of tire widths in Germany, depending on the type of terrain. 40mm on 700C are a very good size for gravelriding, much less and it gets uncomfortable. I have built several gravel bikes for germans and have used everything from 38mm slicks on 700C wheels to 48mm on 650B wheels (both slick and with profile). It seems that roadies are really adamant in experimenting with wider tires because they are stuck in the everlasting myth that high pressure/narrow is fastest. Maybe on a perfect wooden floor track but as soon as you introduce bumps and irregularities it is no longer true.
1
chas
1,305 posts
#30Jul 18, 2019, 9:28 AM
Experience.

It is an answer to the OP's specific question, and may not apply to you. It depends what part of the country you are riding in, but in general trails and paths accessible to bikes are very well maintained, and Germany doesn't use the US class 5 gravel to maintain paths.

Many people prefer larger tires, but 32mm isn't gonna hold you back much. Class 5 gravel, or a rutted out fire road in the US will tear up wheels and tires on a 32mm tire.
2
OltreForza
55 posts
#31Jul 19, 2019, 9:49 PM
The 2020 Trek Domane endurance bike being introduced next Friday will have 38mm tire clearance with 5mm to spare.
1
chas
1,305 posts
#32Jul 20, 2019, 11:12 AM
That is interesting.
(5mm is the minimum ISO requirement for clearance)
1
balles88
30 posts
#33Jul 20, 2019, 4:54 PM
Hello!!

I was a little bit frustrated because I was decided to buy a canyon grail 7.0 and when I realized they were in stock around 1 week ago, they were sold out in a few hours. I was too late... incredible. So I started to look for an alternative... but... what is the best alternative? Because people usually say that it is difficult to beat Canyon in terms of spec/price. Any idea?
But, as it has been mentioned two messages above, the new domane could be interesting with tires of 38mm...
Do you think they will be available soon??

Thanks!!!
Raul
0
OltreForza
55 posts
#34Jul 21, 2019, 2:15 PM
balles88 wrote:Hello!!

I was a little bit frustrated because I was decided to buy a canyon grail 7.0 and when I realized they were in stock around 1 week ago, they were sold out in a few hours. I was too late... incredible. So I started to look for an alternative... but... what is the best alternative? Because people usually say that it is difficult to beat Canyon in terms of spec/price. Any idea?
But, as it has been mentioned two messages above, the new domane could be interesting with tires of 38mm...
Do you think they will be available soon??

Thanks!!!
Raul

The Domane will be introduced this Friday. Don't know price or availability date. One bike you should look at is the Giant Revolt. Pricing is even better than Canyon and it doesn't come with that fugly double decker cockpit.
0
TonyM
87 posts
#35Jul 21, 2019, 10:58 PM
automa1971 wrote:That's an interesting statement. How does one define which tire width is suitable per country? Terrain maybe? I'd say you can ride all sorts of tire widths in Germany, depending on the type of terrain. 40mm on 700C are a very good size for gravelriding, much less and it gets uncomfortable. I have built several gravel bikes for germans and have used everything from 38mm slicks on 700C wheels to 48mm on 650B wheels (both slick and with profile). It seems that roadies are really adamant in experimenting with wider tires because they are stuck in the everlasting myth that high pressure/narrow is fastest. Maybe on a perfect wooden floor track but as soon as you introduce bumps and irregularities it is no longer true.

What I meant and wrote was "For riding in parks and around lakes in Germany you don't need 40mm tires IMHO. 32mm or 35mm should be sufficient depending on the size of the gravel.

Not sure where you live but in Germany all these roads are usually pretty similar in terms of width and surface.

Of course you can also ride 40mm+ tires.
0
balles88
30 posts
#36Jul 27, 2019, 9:48 AM
Hello!!

Well, finally I bought my new Grail 7.0 Al. I think it was the first bike I was interested on. The price matches with my budget and I will not need to spend more money...

I was thinking as well about the new Domane with clearance up to 38mm but I don't think I need to spend so much money. The Canyon has everything I was looking for.

Thanks to all of you for your great support and all the comments to make my decision easier.

Thanks!!!
Raúl
0
chas
1,305 posts
#37Jul 29, 2019, 10:14 AM
Congratulations. Sounds like a great bike!
(now we need pictures!)
1
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#38Jul 29, 2019, 10:24 AM
Yeah no pics means it didn't happen. lol

Zman
1
balles88
30 posts
#39Jul 29, 2019, 10:49 AM
Hi!!

I promise I will upload some photos as soon as I have the bike! 🙂 But, I will receive it at the end of September... not a big problem for me because I will be on holidays in September.

I hope it is a good decision!! For that price I think I don't get anything better... I have heard it is not a very "aggressive" bike but the geometry is not very relaxed I think... what do you think?

On the other side, I am already thinking about the second wheel-set... since the bike is coming with 40mm tire. I am thinking about a 32mm tire. I do not know if I will be able to mount directly a 32mm tire in the week or if I will have to buy as well a new wheel... With those 2 options (32 and 40) I hope I can go anywhere fast!! 🙂

Thank you!!
0
chas
1,305 posts
#40Jul 30, 2019, 8:32 AM
Raul,

I think you'll be fine, unles you really want the extra agility of a cross type bike. Just comparing small/medium sized Aluminum Grail vs Al Inflite:
Top tube - 5mm longer
head tube - 5mm taller
Head tube angel 2degrees slacker
chain stay 5mm shorter
bottom bracket 9mm lower

It longer, lower, slacker. more stable - which can be faster - especially if it is hilly.

GCN did a "test" and determined the grail was faster than the more aggressive infilte (although I would blame the gearing and tires not being well matched, more than the bikes).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRe3rMyw5F8
1

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