irideiam wrote:What is the appeal to Chinese frames? The fact that they are cheap price wise? I personally shy away from China products as much as possible, because they are cheaply made with lessor materials and low workmanship, but then again I shy away from carbon. and run steel framed gravel, cross, and touring bikes.
There are very good frames made in China. The issue with open mold carbon (frames, forks, rims, components) is not specifically where they are made but that you have no specifics on how they are made. If you get it from a known name brand company there can be some confirmation that it is made properly with the right materials and you have an easier to deal with warranty.
I'm really leery of open-mold products that are critical to safety, like frames, forks and handlebars, and won't buy them. The fact that they're made in China is not the issue, I'm just not willing to take the risk on an unknown layup and questionable quality control. Yeah, they're cheap, but if they land you in the hospital, it could be a lot more costly than buying brand-name products instead.
There are certainly examples of things like handlebars from China being crap. But, none that I’ve seen were sold by these vendors. The vendors we’re buying frames from are making frames for brand name companies. That’s their primary business. There’s nothing magical or complicated about carbon layup whereby- if they’re not instructed on exactly which prepreg to put where - the factories don’t know how to do it.
The differences in layup come down to which carbon gets used. The Open Mould bikes typically use a single type and it’s typically T700 or T800. This is cheaper than a frame with multiple types that include higher modulus and it’s heavier. It’s also stronger.
The biggest issue is questionable quality control. Eliminating voids and excess resin in the layup is critical to achieving maximum strength and durability. No material can compensate for that. There are myriad examples of poor quality layups causing failures that should never have happened. People have gotten seriously injured because of this lack of quality.
Whether a single type of carbon is used is far less critical than the quality of the layup, which beyond voids and resin pooling, includes applying sufficient reinforcement in key areas of high stress.
T700/800 carbon is not stronger than higher modulus carbon, it's less stiff and less brittle, so it handles impacts better.
Granted, the quality of generic carbon products from China has improved as the manufacturers have gained experience. However, when you have no idea who builds your frame or whether they will stand behind it if it fails - without you incurring insanely high shipping costs to get it replaced - it's something that needs to be considered. Also keep in mind that if you do get seriously injured because of a product defect, you have no legal recourse for getting compensated for medical costs, as going after a nameless company in China is futile (they could just close the company and immediately reopen it under another name, anyway). Essentially, they have no real incentive to take the time and effort to make a top-quality product.
I'm not criticizing anyone for making the choice to buy these products, but I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth the risk for me. I just urge people to make an informed choice and understand that you're not getting that low price without compromising something else.
Seraph frame maxes out at 40mm tires. I had a similar Chinese frame that I raced on for over a year. Was able to fit 45mm on front, but was always frustrated by limitations on back. Otherwise very good if you want a frame with more aggressive geometry and limited mounting/tire options. More of a cross bike.
Thanks! That’s actually very good news. I live in the Southeast. In the low country. We have no mountains. We have no hills. We have no real single track. We do have thousands of miles of fire roads, dirt backroads, and service roads. They’re mostly packed dirt with some sand and gravel thrown in intermittently. So, I don’t need huge tires. Furthermore there’s quite a few races that will hopefully resume once our pandemic eases.
