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Happy Trails.NoCoGreg wrote:Let me pull the thread back to something VERY IMPORTANT which Enoch pointed out several replies ago...
The other major incompatibility one encounters is between the shifters and the derailleurs. The cable pull between mountain and road front derailleurs vary with manufacturer and model. Some of the older front mountain derailleurs were compatible with that manufacturer's indexed brifter. For example:
Shimano 10 sp road front shifters have a different cable pull than the mountain shifters.
Shimano 7/8/9 speed mountain rear derailleurs are compatible with most 7/8/9/10 road brifters. BUT the new 10 sp mountain derailleurs have a different cable pull so they won't work with the 10 sp road brifters.
Greg
telem55 wrote:38/11 would be sufficient for the vast bulk of recreational riders in the vast bulk of riding situations, though egos seem to often get in the way these days of gearing decisions on most recreational road and road/dirt bikes. Sure, you could spin it out on occasion if you are determined to barrel your way down dirt road rock laden descents at well over 30 mph, but in any other situation very, very few rec riders would ever spin out that gear at any high cadence in almost all road or dirt road situations.
Just 35 years ago, a typical recreational european stage road race bike would be outfitted with a 46 max tooth front chainset combined with a rear cassette that as its smallest cog was no lower than a 13 and in many cases a 14 tooth cog. A 38/11 gearing gives you virtually the same gear inches as a 46/13 and slightly more gear inches than a 46/14 set up.
Road riders have not improved their speeds overall in the past 35 to 50 years. Nor have what would be called gran fondo or dirt road type riders. What has happened though is that road component makers have realized they can cut manufacturing costs by offering pure high level race geared chainsets and cassettes to all recreational cyclists, including those who do not race, nor have the ability to race at a high level. This has of course also helped their marketing departments, who gladly advertise that you are now riding the same gearing that many pros and serious CAT 1 type racers ride, while ignoring the fact most of these gears at the top end are completely and utterly useless to the typical recreational rider in well more than 95% of their riding, and for many in 100% of their riding.
It really comes down usually to descending and how important it is for you to descend at over 30 mph? A 38/10 (Sram now offers a 10/42 MTB wide range cassette) spun at 100 rpm, which is not an insane rpm for most riders would have one riding at about 31 mph, spinning a 38/11 at 100 rpm would have one riding at about 28mph. Spinning those same gears at 110rpm (which again many recreational cyclists can do on a descent for a short period) would have you descending at about 34 mph and 31mph respectively.
Seems that not many people would want to be descending cruddy fire roads or single track loaded with rocks at much more than 30 mph unless they have a face plant wish, which some people do right up until the point it actually happens.
I guess what I'm saying is that overall, a 38/11 or a 38/10 in the vast majority of cases is going to provide more than enough top end gearing for the vast majority of dirt/road recreational riders if they are honest with themselves and lose the big chainset ego.
I have actually gotten a good chuckle online reading some of the fellows, who claim for example that they regularly spin out their 46/11 set ups on flats??? Yeah, sure they do. A 46/11 spun at any high cadence of say 100 rpm would have that person riding at 33 mph (assuming only a 700x23c road tire being used). To put those claims into perspective, Greg Lemond in 1989 rode the 2nd fastest time trial in TDF history from a mph standpoint over a relatively flat 30 kilometer course averaging a shade over 34 mph. That was the best rider in the world at that point using an aerobar set up, and a solid disc rear aero wheel going all out over a relatively short (30 kilometers) and flat TT course. And yet you have some recreational cyclists in 2016 claiming they are regularly spinning out 46/11 (33 mph at 100 rpm or even their 50/11 which converts to 36 mph at 100 rpm on their road bikes on the flats??? hahaha
Yeah sure they are! Perhaps if all their riding is being done in an assisting wind tunnel, or they have managed to control weather and ride perpetually with a 50 mph tailwind always at their backs in all directions. Short of that, these types of silly claims are little more than internet ego and BS being spread. A 38/11 top end will work for almost all rec riders on the road paved or unpaved in almost all situations if they are spinning at any reasonable cadence. Other than an occasional steep descent, hose things called gear charts say so. And even in those situations one can often go as fast or even faster by being aero versus pedaling. :-)
This is a really good comment, one that I agree with entirely. I was skeptical of 1x10 and 1x11 drivetrains until I started playing around with the HTML Gear Calculator. I currently have a Specialized AWOL with Sora and Deore components (30-39-50/12-36 9-speed), which are not particularly high end, but they get the job done. I was kinda shocked to realize that with a narrow-wide Raceface/Wolftooth 38T chainring and a Sunrace 11-46 11-speed cassette (There's also a Deore XT available now) I would only lose about one and a half gears off the top of my current range, and I never really ride up there, except on some downhills and I really wouldn't miss it, as gravity is working for me there.
As stated above, you see a lot of guys going on about spinning out on various forums, but it seems sort of misleading to me. I commonly spin on the 50T ring in the middle of my cassette, basically the same as spinning on the 38T ring on the first two gears. I would probably go to a 1x10 or 1x11 set up tomorrow, if I didn't have a perfectly adequate road triple/mountain cassette-derailleur set up and bills to pay.
I have been thinking about the following set up as well, mainly as a thought experiment. I was all fired up a while ago about getting some "better" components on my AWOL, and wanted to go to 105 and XT, but then I calmed down a little, accepted that Sora and Deore are actually entirely adequate and that a 1x system would ultimately be better for me. Still, I was interested in the following, as it provides massive range with a compact double and uses the new XT T8000 trekking RD with its huge total capacity.
Shimano 105 Compact 10 Speed Crankset 50-34 (OR: 46-36)
Shimano 105 2x10 Speed Front Double Derailleur
Shimano 105 2x10 Speed STI Levers
SunRace 11-42 10-speed Cassette
Shimano Deore XT RD-T8000-SGS (Total Capacity: 47t) &
Wolftooth Tanpan