Just got a Jamis Renegade Expert

Howdy everyone,
I just bought a Jamis Renegade Expert from Jenson Bicycles in Riverside, CA.  Price was $2399.  Jenson had both  51 and 54 cm bikes in stock but they were not assembled.  I was unsure which size I wanted as I'm 5'8" with a 30" inseam which is borderline between the two.  I had to pay for both so they would be assembled when I got there (70 mile drive) but they would refund the money for the unwanted one with no restocking fee.  I called yesterday morning and was told there was a wait until around Tuesday next week.  Then I got a call later that they were ready for pickup today.    I want to give Jensons a big thumbs up - I talked with half a dozen or so employees and all were cycling enthusiasts with decent to very good cycling knowledge.  Not always the case when dealing with companies with a large internet presence and warehouse shipping.

I rode both sizes a couple times up and down the parking lot.  I ended up settling on the 51 cm size because I already have a road bike with an aggressive riding position and I was looking for a more relaxed, upright riding position.  I could have made the 54 cm work just with a more forward, aggressive body position.

I've only been able to be able to ride around the neighborhood a little as my left hand is recovering from a medical procedure.  I really liked the Shimano 105 derailleurs - smooth, low effort, quick shifts.  Also, the hydraulic disc brakes are great.

I adjust the Clement X Plor USH, 700 x 35c stock tires to the minimum recommended pressure of 65 psi and they were harsher than I'd hoped.  I lowered the front to 50 psi which was better.  I plan to switch to tubeless soon and want a cushier ride.  Recommendations?

I'll be riding this bike mostly on dirt forest service roads in Montana with some occasional single track explorations.  I can't wait to ride some more.

I have been riding the same bike for almost a year now.  Got mine right after the 2016's became available.  The stock USH tires are only 30 TPI and rode harsh for me as well.  I switched them out for the Clement MSO 60 TPI in 700x40 and the ride quality improved dramatically.  More volume and a better tread for the hard pack/gravel I mostly ride here in Florida.  I am running mine with tubes at 48-50 psi and have not had a flat yet in more than 6 months of riding over some pretty rough conditions.  I weigh 200lbs so you may be able to go at an even lower PSI without pinch flatting if you are lighter.

I also have a new Renegade Expert. I am trying to go tubeless, but I keep finding I don't have all the bits and pieces.

The wheels, despite being labeled as "tubeless ready" don't have tubeless rim tape. I am either going to cut clear Gorilla Tape to size or buy Orange Seal 18 mm tape. I think 17 mm would be better. Problem is, these Alex wheels are much narrower than most tubeless setups, and the rim tape hasn't caught up. Check out threads on weightweenies.com and mtbr.com on rim tubeless rim tape. It will make your head spin.

I know that Jenson stocks the above Orange Seal tape, so I'd think that is where you should start.

If you buy tubeless tires, they don't come with the valves you need. And you'll need sealant. In all, you need:

- tubeless tires
- rim tape
- valves
- sealant (usually optional, but actually required on Schwalbe "Tubeless Easy" tires because of their thin sidewalls)
- mounting fluid (optional) (Schwalbe Easy Fit does seem to help)
- high volume floor pump

Take a look at the new Schwalbe -One line. I bought S-One tires because I ride 95% paved roads, but their G-One might do it for you. That thin sidewall should soften the ride.

Ron
Vancouver, BC

I just found today that the rims don't include tape.  I tried using 3M electrical tape which worked pretty well without sealant (Stan's) but then I couldn't keep the valve stem sealed after adding the sealant.  I'm going to call around tomorrow to the LBS's to see if anyone has the either Stan's or the Orange Seal tape you mentioned in stock.  I ended up getting the Maxxis Rambler 40 mm tires because those were the only ones I could find that were tubeless ready in the size I wanted and were actually in stock.  I mounted the rear with a tube and there is lots of clearance.

Electrical tape stretches too much unless you wrap several layers.

I had a closer look at my rim last night. 18 mm (3/4") is too wide - you don't want tape in the groove where the tire bead sits because eventually removing a tire will mung your tape. I am thinking 12 mm (half inch) might be about right.

Those spoke holes look and feel like they should be deburred before you apply tape.

Truth be told, I don't really think these rims are suitable for tubeless. Because the spoke holes are staggered, you only get a few mm between the hole and the edge of the tape to get a good seal. I'm going to try it - but several weeks before any important ride.

A valve stem removal tool is  good to have. Especially when using a shop compressor.

I tried clicking on the picture embed link and it greyed out the page so no photos. Anyway, rode the Renegade on some desert single track near La Quinta, CA.  It worked better than expected and it was pretty fun.  Descents weren't as much fun as on my Kona Process 153 but were survivable.  I think I missed the MTB brakes (203/180 mm discs) more than the suspension.  Riding the more well packed up and down rolling terrain was pretty fun.  Soft sand was challenging but more rideable than I expected - I quickly learned I needed low or next to low gear on ANY soft sand upgrade.  I have the Maxxis Rambler 40 mm tire mounted on the rear (with a tube since my first attempt to go tubeless failed) so I got a little more flotation that the stock 35mm.  Hopefully I'll have two 40 mm tubeless tires mounted up soon.

The conversion to tubeless has not gone well.  I documented my problem in the gravel tire forum also.  Basically, I can't get the Stan's universal valve stems to seal using the Maxxis Rambler 40mm tires.  So, I've ordered the Stan's cyclocross rim strip with the integrated valve stem.  I got the tires seated no problem but the valve stem would not seal no matter what I tried and let out all the air.  I've done a tubeless conversion on 4 mountain bike wheels using the same valve stems with no problems so I'm not real happy.  I'm guessing that the 17mm interior rim width is not wide enough and the tire beads are somehow interfering with those universal valve stems.  I'm not racing (yet) so the extra weight isn't that big a deal but I think I'll be shopping for some wider wheels in the near future.

I have also ordered a Stans cyclocross strip. I will try installing it on the weekend.

Frankly, "Tubeless Ready" is false advertising on these Alexrims ATD470 wheels. Very disappointing, given the quality of the rest of the bike.

I wonder if the American Classics wheels on the Elite are better.

I will be buying HED Ardennes Plus GP wheels for $700 the pair in June when some money comes my way. This link leads to a dealer that charges the same as everybody else, but throws in free tires: http://store.thecyclinghouse.com/HED_Ardennes_GP_Wheelset_Road_and_Cyclocross_p/hedardgp16.htm

The HED wheels come taped for tubeless. I have been riding the 650b HED Belgium Plus rims on my Lynskey for a year now, and really like them.

I checked out those Ardennes wheels at the link above.  I like that they are 4mm wider internally which might help with my valve stem issues.  I'm new to this gravel riding thing but only 18 spokes for the front wheel makes me nervous as my riding will includes lots of potholes and rocks.

Weird, the HED web site has 24 spokes front and rear. HED also has a "Stallion" version for those of us over the 200 pound mark. The Cycling House order form lets you specify Stallion - maybe that's with 24 spokes front?

I'll email and find out.

jonz wrote:The conversion to tubeless has not gone well.  I documented my problem in the gravel tire forum also.  Basically, I can't get the Stan's universal valve stems to seal using the Maxxis Rambler 40mm tires.  So, I've ordered the Stan's cyclocross rim strip with the integrated valve stem.  I got the tires seated no problem but the valve stem would not seal no matter what I tried and let out all the air.  I've done a tubeless conversion on 4 mountain bike wheels using the same valve stems with no problems so I'm not real happy.  I'm guessing that the 17mm interior rim width is not wide enough and the tire beads are somehow interfering with those universal valve stems.  I'm not racing (yet) so the extra weight isn't that big a deal but I think I'll be shopping for some wider wheels in the near future.

Update: I used the Stan's cyclocross rim strip with valve and got the Rambler tire mounted tubeless without much problem.  As noted elsewhere, I got a flat a couple days ago from a nail.  It turns out besides puncturing the tread area, it also put a small hole in the sidewall near the bead so no tubeless with that tire.  I'm too cheap to buy another Rambler without  at least putting some miles on this one with a tube.

Seems they don't have stock of the GP, and they said that HED has little or no stock, and won't be producing more this year.

Then they offered me a very good deal on the CL. Told me the stallion build is 20/28 spokes and is rated for 250 lbs. Disc brake option only available for 2016.

I wonder why the limited production of the less expensive wheel. Perhaps people who are going to buy expensive like to go very expensive.

Things to ponder.

F*^k!!!!!   I have new pedals on the Renegade and they have a little more float than I'm used to.  I was exploring my single track limits on the Renegade, came to a stop, and couldn't click out.  Fell over and landed on some rocks.  And broke my seat stay.  F*^K!!!!  I am SO bummed.

Jonz, I upset am for having read that. Brand new, and expensive. Bad, bad news. Sorry that all I can offer is sympathy.

Can this sort of damage be repaired? Obviously it would affect the ride, bit how much?

Ron

Maybe it's a defect check with jenson's and see what they can do for you.

Jamis says no on the warranty and I don't disagree.  I'm disappointed how easy it is to damage carbon fiber though and probably will never buy another carbon frame bike that isn't solely a road bike.  Jamis does offer a crash damage frame purchase at 45% off which will be $650.  No frames available now but "should be available sometime next month."  Hmmmmm.

I've looked into frame repair from a couple companies, Calfee design and Predator Cycling.  Predator Cycling website says to expect a turn around during race season of 6 weeks.  I emailed Calfee photos and got an estimate of $300 for the repair with no painting and a turn around time of a couple weeks so I'll probably go with that.  I'm gonna drop my bike off at a LBS in Idaho that is a Jamis dealer and also deals with Calfee.  The LBS will disassemble and ship, and then reassemble.  So I'm looking at around 3 - 4 weeks and around $500 when all is done.

I'd say it was just bad luck. I've crashed my carbon mountain bike several times pretty hard and had no issues at all. 

So other than the issue with the wheels...what's the word on the bike? I'm looking at this and a Trek Boone as my next purchase. Two pretty different steeds...just trying to decide which is the best way to go and depends on the price I can get on the Jamis from the local dealer. I almost discounted it as an option because I didn't read carefully the first couple times that I was looking it over that the bike will come with full hydro brakes mid season. Not sure what mid season is so I need to find out if that's happening now or how long will it be before the upgrade.

Nubster wrote:So other than the issue with the wheels...what's the word on the bike? I'm looking at this and a Trek Boone as my next purchase. Two pretty different steeds...just trying to decide which is the best way to go and depends on the price I can get on the Jamis from the local dealer. I almost discounted it as an option because I didn't read carefully the first couple times that I was looking it over that the bike will come with full hydro brakes mid season. Not sure what mid season is so I need to find out if that's happening now or how long will it be before the upgrade.

They are full hydro now.  Brakes are good - very good feel and pretty good power.  I say pretty good relative to my mtb with 203/180 disc brakes.  Bike feels pretty stable on dirt at speed.  I might want lower gearing - any uphill on other than well packed desert sand have me in granny or one gear higher.  Desert hard pack is not hard though so I'm anxious to see how it does on the gravel forest service roads in Montana.  The Shimano 105 shifting is great - much better than on my Trek Madonne which is equipped with SRAM shifters.  Much better.  I like the more relaxed geometry.  I've bounced the wheels off some good bumps - still true and no broken spokes.  Anything else you want an opinion on?

Plenty stiff from the thru axles? No rotor rub? Can you feel any difference with the 142 rear? My Cannondale I don't really notice any bad flex in the rear with the 135 QR but I do get some rotor rub up front. It's minor but happens. I get it really bad on my rigid mountain bike that's running a Niner QR fork. I'm trying to sell the fork so I can fund a new thru axle fork for that bike. 

I'll be re-gearing either bike I get as well with a 36T cassette. If I get the Trek I'm converting to 2x up front and 36T and if I end up with the Jamis I'll do the 36T cassette and if need be, the derailleur adapter to let me run the 36T. My buddy has it on his Renegade Elite with Ultegra and says it shifts perfectly with a 36T and the extension.