First 'Gravel' bike - advice needed

Hello all, \nDon't know how many Brits you have as members on the forum, there is a steady growth in interest in the gravel scene on our side of the Pond but as we have little real gravel in the UK, the bike manufacturers label them as 'adventure bikes' for tackling single track, country lanes, fire roads and the generally shocking road surfaces we have to ride on! \n \nI'm coming from a road cyclist angle, regularly ride sportives over here, I guess you would call them Gran Fondos, but with the traffic getting busier and drivers getting less patient I'm looking to get off the beaten track a bit more. \n \nI've been reading about and researching two bikes in particular, the GT Grade Carbon Ultegra and the Jamis Renegade Elite. \n \nThe Grade has rave reviews in the UK cycling press, it's probably the best known of the new breed of 'do it all' bikes that have been released in the last few years over here. \n \nI like its looks and my local bike shop deals with GT so getting one to demo shouldn't be a problem. Hasn't changed spec since its release in the UK in 2015 and doesn't seem to be getting any upgrades for MY2017. \n \nThe Renegade is one I really like the look of, seems better equipped than the Grade for MY2017, thru axles front and rear, flat mount discs and the mudguard/rack mounts if I decide to take it Audaxing. \nI've only seen a few details about the Elite for 2017 on BikeRumour but it's top of my list. \nOnly downside is that Jamis are available only through Evans Cycles in the UK and they only seem to get limited stock of each frame size, so it becomes almost a race to pick one up. \n \nAny one offer any help/advice/reviews on either of the two bikes I've looked at? \nWe do have access to the usual suspects Specialized but you don't get much 'bang for your buck' with the big S at the moment. \n \nCheers, \nAndy \n \n

Love my Renegade Elite but it's a 2015 so it's 135 QR in the back. But I haven't had issues with it and I'm "upgrading" that to 10x135 soon. Room for 40c tires at least. Great geometry. Rides great on paved roads and gravel alike. 

I read good things about the Grade as well and I think it looks great. But lack of tire size is what turned me off. Also, only thru axle on the front, similar to my Renegade which I'd prefer to be TA rear. I settled because my bike was a demo that I got for nearly 50% off so it was a concession I was willing to make for the savings. The TA front however is mandatory for me. But if I were buying a new new bike...2016 or 2017...then for me, TA rear is a big want. Not a need, but definitely something that would sway me from to one bike over another if all else was pretty equal.

So if tire size isn't an issue and you can live with 35c and maybe some 38's being as wide as you can go and not having TA in the rear...the Grade would probably be a great option. You'll save some $$$ too assuming price difference in the UK is the same as here in the US which is about $800.

If you want the larger tire clearance, thru axle rear, and like the options for adding racks and three bottle cages (not sure if the Grade has those options) and having a more adventure type bike option...Jamis all the the way.

Thanks Nubster, I must admit I'm drifting more and more towards the Renegade. \n$800 ????? \nIs there that much difference in price in the U.S. between the Grade Carbon Ultegra and the Renegade Elite? \n \nPretty much the same price here, around £2600 before any end of season /MY discounts for both bikes so the Jamis looks the better value, less known than the GT, the Grade is really well regarded and available at quite a few retailers, Jamis not really that well known as Evans Cycles only, and Evans have a bit of a bad rep although I've had no problems. \n \nAny idea when Jamis will be unveiling the 2017 Renegade Elite to the U.S. market? I'm guessing we will be a month or so behind in the UK.

I was told possibly late July for the Jamis. And yeah...the Elite is $4600 and the Grade Ultegra is $3800 here. If both are the same price for you...I'd go Jamis. Just seems like it has better design and options. 

My advice is read the "Beginners" advice here: http://www.gravelcyclist.com . In the last analysis almost any of the bikes mentioned by you and the other posters here, would be a great choice. The important thing is to get something rolling -- the sooner the better. In general though, if you have a local dealer that you like and trust for service, then buy from him, even if his offering isn't as spiffy as something you can get elsewhere. You'll be glad you did once something breaks and needs adjustment.

Well I went to Evans this morning during a break from the office. Swung my leg over a 51cm Renegade Expert to get an idea of sizing, I ride a 52cm Scott CR1 and my custom built Ti is based on the same geometry as the Scott. \n \nThinking 51cm will be the size for me, probably put a 10mm longer stem on. Thought the Renegade looked quite 'boxy' though, I'll have to see and ride a Grade in the flesh and make my mind up. \nHave booked a test ride on a Renegade Elite when they get on in stock. \n Diverge also looked good in the Specialized Concept Store I went in but not keen on being tied to the propriety wheel system.

Yeah...the Renegade does look a bit chunky. But it's actually quite light. Mine is a 58 and with pedals came in at 21 pounds. Not the lightest but not bad. My Cannondale Synapse Carbon was only slightly lighter. I've not seen a Grade in person so I can't say for sure, but in pictures it definitely has a little more "refined" look to it. Thinner stays and I really like the look of the triple triangle. I was close to ordering one but I wanted the SRAM equipped bike and it was out of stock...but the main issue I had was lack of tire clearance. For most of my riding...the 35c max would be just fine I'm sure. But I do plan on entering some events where it is HIGHLY recommended to roll on bigger tires AND have plenty of room for mud. So that killed the Grade for me. And sadly...GT didn't see fit to "improve" the Grade this year with room for wider tires and a TA rear. Hopefully you'll get to ride both and grab the one that works best for you. I don't know if there's a ride difference between the Renegade Elite and Expert. I know they use different carbon between the two frames and I want to say the Expert has an aluminum steerer on the fork and the Elite is carbon so it should be a lighter bike.

Thanks again for the in depth reply Nubster. \nI've asked my local bike shop to contact the GT rep in the UK to see if he can find out if any updates/upgrades will be on the 2017 Carbon Grade. I'll keep an eye on the Internet as that's usually the best source of info. \n \nI'm only looking at running 32 or 35mm Scwhalbe G One tubeless, the bike I get will be used mainly for days out with a map, just following trails and bridleways plus there are a few 'gravel' type events popping up in the UK, it does seem to be taking off as the Sportive market seems to have bottomed out, one of the main companies organising them has gone bust recently. \n \nQuite enjoy browsing the Web looking at bikes tho, off to look at some more in the flesh tomorrow. Luckily the wife is working!!!

I have a Volagi Viaje with SRAM Force 1X and absolutely love it.  I seriously considered the Grade, Slate, and a couple from Foundry (Flyover and Overland).  The Viaje is my first gravel bike, and in the interest of full disclosure, I'll tell you I'm a roadie and have only ~1,000 miles off the road.  Be that as it may, it's now the only bike I ride (and I have 4), on or off road.  My first post, and my $0.02. .      

Ah...those Foundry bikes...such nice looking rides. I was drooling over them a while back but due to the price I knew that's all I'd ever get to do. I'm dead set that my next bike will be Ti. Even if I have to buy a frame one year, and the rest of the bits and pieces the next. I will have a Ti frame bike someday. But it'll be a couple/few years before I can even think about it at this point. 

Nubster, when you get that Ti itch, at some stage you got to scratch it. That's my 'best' bike, rides beautifully, fast as you can push it but comfortable. \n \nThe thumbnail is upside down but main image should b e ok. \n \nBack on topic, tried to find a Grade to look at this morning but no one locally has got any in stock, looks like I'll be waiting for MY2017 to arrive, been very popular bike since its U K release. \n

Damn guys I'm in hesitation mode right now. What would you do if you were in my spot. I paid for Bulls Grinder 2 bike and after 2 delays they say it will be available at the end of June. This way I still could cancel it and wait for 2017 Renegade Exploit. Question is when does it will be available for sale this year. I'm not sure does that rear thru axle and front rack mounts are worth waiting. Grinder 2 is pretty damn good constructed and equipped bike. What would you guys?

Bart33kk wrote:Damn guys I'm in hesitation mode right now. What would you do if you were in my spot. I paid for Bulls Grinder 2 bike and after 2 delays they say it will be available at the end of June. This way I still could cancel it and wait for 2017 Renegade Exploit. Question is when does it will be available for sale this year. I'm not sure does that rear thru axle and front rack mounts are worth waiting. Grinder 2 is pretty damn good constructed and equipped bike. What would you guys?

New Jamis bikes probably won't be out until towards end of July if there's no delays. That's according to my dealer and in regards to the Renegade at least...I'd assume all Jamis bikes are going to be along the same lines.

As far as rear TA...really nice to have, but I don't think it's a deal killer. My Renegade is NOT a TA and honestly, I can't tell. It's really nice when it's time to take the wheel off and put back on because everything lines up perfect every time. As far as increased stiffness....I can't tell a difference between the 135 QR and 12x142 rear. If you want a slight upgrade...you can possibly get a 10x135 rear hub or if the one on the bike you get is convertible, convert it and run a 10mm TA that has a better clamping force and is arguably slightly stiffer. I'm doing that with my new wheel set not that I've had a second of problem with my current rear QR system. It's just that when I ordered my new hubs...I had the option of getting 10x135 so I figured...why not.

And front racks...that's a personal decision. I'd have probably zero use for them. You may find a need.

So...if it were me...knowing that there was a month difference in wait time, if you don't have a bike to ride now...I'd probably get the Bulls or at least wait until the very last moment that you can before cancelling the order. If you have a bike that's suitable...at least you won't be in too bad of a position to wait for the Jamis.

Tough choice though. The Bulls is definitely well specced...at least the drivetrain being Ultegra and hydro brakes. Aluminum frame could be iffy if they don't do it correctly. I'm sure there's reviews out there where people talk about the ride quality. And it's a pretty good looking bike.

Jamis...steel is real. That is if it's done right. But Jamis has been in the game many years and is pretty well known for their steel frames. I'd trust it's done well. 12x142 rear is nice. Lower spec though and will the 2017 has full hydro brakes or the hybrids again? I know the 2016 Renegade Expert started with hybrids but then they switched to full hydro. Also a really nice looking bike. The 2016 is at least. Haven't seen the 2017 yet. But honestly, 105 vs Ultegra...honestly...other than a very slight weight difference, I'd bet my bike you or almost anyone would not tell the difference in performance. 105 is a super solid groupset and Shimano does a great job of trickle down technology. The main difference will be in your head thinking you are getting a lesser quality group compared to Ultegra but really, that's not going to be the case. It is kinda a tough pill to swallow though when you have two bikes that are the same price and one is Ultegra and the other 105. Initial gut feeling is jump on the Ultegra bike. But you need to step back and look at the bike as a whole and see how they compare. The Ultegra bike might be full of cheap parts and/or a cheaper frame to bring the price down but then fancied up with some Ultegra bits. That's kinda what Bulls did. Only a few parts are Ultegra. The r/d and f/d and crank. The rest are lowerend stuff. The brakes, shifters, chain, cassestte. Cockpit parts are all house branded. If you look at the Jamis, except for the brakes unless they changed that like they did with the Renegade, it's full 105. And the other parts except for the seat post are all name branded. So that's something to think about.

Both lifetime warranty. How about the dealer(s)? Same dealer or different? If different, which do you like better? That's one thing you can use as a tie breaker. 

And to pose another question...if you have to wait 2 months for the Jamis...will that give you enough time to save a little extra and maybe spring for the Jamis Renegade Expert? It's not much more than the bikes you are looking at but it's carbon and pretty well specced. And they ride fantastic. I love my Renegade.

I bought a GG a couple of months back.  Are there reliable sources to review for paring excess weight from the stock bike?  Suggestions re reducing weight without compromising durability/safety?

What bike? You can get a bike pretty light these days and stay perfectly safe. My Renegade sits at 21 pounds with those heavy wheels and all aluminum cockpit and seat post. New wheels and a couple carbon bits and I'd say I could be at less than 20 pounds and no problems being safe or durable. My mountain bike is 19 pounds and sees more abuse than my gravel bike and has been perfectly fine and again...could be made lighter if I wanted. Think about pro bikes weighing in at around 16 pounds and take more abuse than probably any of us would ever imagine subjecting our bikes to and you never see them fail except maybe in a crash.

I sprang for a Roker.  Weighs about 20.  Was hoping to shave a little more off without compromising safety.

Yeah...don't think you'll shed much weight without spending some serious money. Wheels would be probably the biggest place to lose some weight, lighter setup and go tubeless...upgrade the alloy parts to carbon, seatpost, stem, handlebars, ect, and ditch the Tiagra (or 105 if you got the comp.) stuff and grab an Ultegra or Dura Ace drive train. You might get it down to 18 pounds. You're wallet will definitely be lighter.

None of those upgrades will affect the safety of the bike. I was seriously looking at the Rokers but I couldn't get one in my size other than the Ltd and as nice as it looks...it was a bit out of my price range. 

Thnx for your input. 

Some lighter weight tubeless tires will be a noticeable difference and small weight reduction at a low cost. Those wheels are TL friendly.

Consider Diamondback Haanjo, has good reviews, I own it. The cables are routed through bottom tube so can work great at cross as well. I was searching for a 105 components bike on which I can do both long distance gravel (actually had Dirty Kanza 200 in mind, aiming for it next year) and found cross equally exciting. The geometry allows both. It is priced $1300 and if you buy it between 6/10/16 to 6/12/16 you get $400 in store credit from Performance Bike. Best of Luck!