2016 DB Haanjo Comp -- 3 month report

As a newcomer to unpaved riding, after many years as a competitive road rider, I didn't want to go "all in" on my first purpose built gg bike. The DB Haanjo Comp. seemed like a good choice with a solid and a well balanced choice of components. I also liked the fact that I could get fast delivery and a good discount on Amazon Prime. DB's "ready to ride" shipping was also a plus. With just minor tinkering, it was ready to ride in about 5 minutes. After 3 months of riding - mostly on maintained dirt and gravel roads - I've formed some very definite impressions of this bike. First of all, I found the gearing range 11-32 with a 46/36 chainrings insufficient for my 73 year old legs and the hilly southern NH roads in my area. Typically, I do about 1000 feet of ascent (and descent!) for every 10 miles of riding. I first upgraded to an 11-36 cogset, but while I can get up most of the hills, I found that an 11-40 mountain bike cogset much better. To reach the 40 with my Shimano 11 speed 105 med cage rear der. I use a Wolftooth Roadlink hanger. I like the 46/36 front end, which gives me plenty of gear overlap, sufficient low gear. It's in my mind almost like running a 1x11. My other upgrade was to replace the stock 40mm Kenda tubed Happy Mediums, with tubeless Maxxis 40mm Ramblers. I run these at about 30-35 PSI for a much smoother ride. Perhaps the Happy Mediums could be setup tubeless for improved performance; but I didn't want to take any chances on a non tubeless rubber. After 3 months and many miles here are my overall feelings about the Haanjo Comp
- Great bike for the money.
- The TRP Spyre brakes are OK -- but upgrade to the Haajo Trail for the full hydraulic brakes if you plan to ride trickier terrain.
- Plan on upgrading the gear range if you ride hilly terrain.
Recommendation -- if you are looking for your first purpose built GG bike, this is a great choice. If you are more experienced, want to race, or plan to ride some rougher terrain, then the Haanjo Trail would be a better choice, especially if you can shop some good deals. Had I known then, what I know now, I would have purchased the Trail for its full hydraulic brakes and improved Ultegra components.

Nice review. I will add for me, at the 3 month point, I like the gearing for the roller coaster type smaller ups and downs we have here in MA on the coast. I'll be taking it up to the mountains sometime over the next couple of weeks, so I'll get a chance to do some longer climbs, but for attacking 25-50 ft hills, one after the other for a 10-30 mi rocky/rooty trail ride, I think the Haanjo is set up great. FWIW, my main gravel riding buddy is on a Jamis Renegade Elite, and these two bikes perform very similarly on the trail. He has the advantage on the road (which is where I'd like to have a litle bit more top gear for long road downhills), but on the trails I have been hitting stuff just a bit faster than him. I think the Haanjo handles windy singletrack really well. The geometry is very similar to the Renegade, and we both feel the position you are in puts you in a great athletic stance to both attack and make quick technical moves. It's been a while since I rode a rigid mountainbike, but I'm almost positive I'm riding my Haanjo (it is the Trail version) much faster on the same trails.

How do you like the fork? I think the one on my Trail is great. I'm comparing it to my old Trek AL fork, and really there is no comparison. It's a much better ride. Smoother, less jarring, and more stable. It seems to smooth things out, and even though these bikes are QR I haven't felt like the fork was floppy at all, or the rear flexy, have you? I've heard that criticism about QR bikes, but I guess I won't really know until I seriously ride a thru axle model, so it's definitely possible I have no valuable input on this. However, it is really rocky here, with roots and downed trees, and my bike seems to track pretty well. And I will add the Hydraulic brakes on the Trail are great, I'm just getting used to how to use them correctly as I adjust to the drop bar hand positioning after 5 years of mountainbike only riding. On the road they are amazing, in the woods I'm still learning the best way to use them. For the tires, I haven't noticed any problem with traction, in fact, I feel like they pull me right along turns and through ups, but I haven't compared them to anything, so again, ignorance is probably bliss.

The new carbon Haanjos that just came out look fantastic and are getting great reviews, but I'm loving this bike too much to part with it just yet. When considering they are a pound (at least) lighter frame with thru axels at the price they are offering, I can't see how DB doesn't kill it in the marketplace from here. I think they have the best line up out there, and it's just getting better. 

YG

yaguy wrote:Nice review. I will add for me, at the 3 month point, I like the gearing for the roller coaster type smaller ups and downs we have here in MA on the coast. I'll be taking it up to the mountains sometime over the next couple of weeks, so I'll get a chance to do some longer climbs, but for attacking 25-50 ft hills, one after the other for a 10-30 mi rocky/rooty trail ride, I think the Haanjo is set up great. FWIW, my main gravel riding buddy is on a Jamis Renegade Elite, and these two bikes perform very similarly on the trail. He has the advantage on the road (which is where I'd like to have a litle bit more top gear for long road downhills), but on the trails I have been hitting stuff just a bit faster than him. I think the Haanjo handles windy singletrack really well. The geometry is very similar to the Renegade, and we both feel the position you are in puts you in a great athletic stance to both attack and make quick technical moves. It's been a while since I rode a rigid mountainbike, but I'm almost positive I'm riding my Haanjo (it is the Trail version) much faster on the same trails.

How do you like the fork? I think the one on my Trail is great. I'm comparing it to my old Trek AL fork, and really there is no comparison. It's a much better ride. Smoother, less jarring, and more stable. It seems to smooth things out, and even though these bikes are QR I haven't felt like the fork was floppy at all, or the rear flexy, have you? I've heard that criticism about QR bikes, but I guess I won't really know until I seriously ride a thru axle model, so it's definitely possible I have no valuable input on this. However, it is really rocky here, with roots and downed trees, and my bike seems to track pretty well. And I will add the Hydraulic brakes on the Trail are great, I'm just getting used to how to use them correctly as I adjust to the drop bar hand positioning after 5 years of mountainbike only riding. On the road they are amazing, in the woods I'm still learning the best way to use them. For the tires, I haven't noticed any problem with traction, in fact, I feel like they pull me right along turns and through ups, but I haven't compared them to anything, so again, ignorance is probably bliss.

The new carbon Haanjos that just came out look fantastic and are getting great reviews, but I'm loving this bike too much to part with it just yet. When considering they are a pound (at least) lighter frame with thru axels at the price they are offering, I can't see how DB doesn't kill it in the marketplace from here. I think they have the best line up out there, and it's just getting better. 

YG

Hi YG- I'm not a very savvy off pavement rider; but I think the fork is fine. The mechanical disks are a little iffy at times on steep descents though. If I brake from the drops, then I get a lot more leverage and control. Unfortunately, I have a bad back and prefer braking from the tops. I will likely install a set of CX alternate brake levers on my bars so that I can get more brake leverage while on the tops. To wit - I wish I spent the extra bucks on hydraulic brakes!
You sound more like a single track guy, than a roadie like me. My toughest terrain is some logging roads, and class A trails. I avoid single track. I'm planning on doing the Mount Rose Rumble on Aug 27: http://www.rosemountainrumble.com . I've already recon'd the 40 miler and 10 mile add on loop. It's just about right for me; but if you plan to try the ride, you may want to take on the more challenging 60 mile route which will likely include some single track. See you at the Rumble?

While the hydraulics do stop well, even from the hoods, when I hit them while in the drops the difference is noticable. They grab really hard, almost locking both wheels up no matter the speed if I'm not careful. The thing is, I mainly ride from the hoods, as I feel like that hand position gives me the best control. I'm thinking of changing the angle of the handlebars to give me just a little more leverage from the hood position.

I'm not much of a racer, but that sounds fun. I am doing the Lasp Gasp down on the Cape, but that is a fundraiser ride that also incorporates a booze cruise back to Sandwich from P-Town, and a clambake back in Sandwich. I'll think about it, and give it a definite maybe.

 
Here are a couple of pics of my Haanjo Comp.  I purchased it at REI last November for $1300 (minus $130 dividend).  I immediately swapped out the saddle for a Terry Fly and the seatpost for carbon, the pedals were switched to Eggbeater 2's, later to the Candy 2's that are still on it.  I also added the auxiliary brake levers while the bike was still fairly new.

I knew I wanted to go tubeless but I just couldn't get the stock Kenda Happy Mediums to work with the stock Hed Tomcat wheels.  I bought a pair of WTB Nano 40's and they snapped right into place (tubelessly) and worked great.  I took the bike to it's first real race, a 120 miler, and by the time I crossed the finish line the Nano's were rubbing the front derailleur lever arm when it was on the big ring.  I measured the Nano's and they were 42.5 mm wide at 38 psi; the frame and 105 front derailleur combination wouldn't allow anything wider than 41mm.  Luckily, I won a pair of Terravail Cannonball tires at that event.  I'd read a lot of good things about how tough they are (and some not so good things about their harsh ride quality), and at 38mm wide I knew they would clear the front derailleur.  I mounted them up and took them for a couple of test rides before I decided these would be THE tires for Dirty Kanza.  They got me through DK with nary a flat, but my sit zone was extremely beat up after 206 miles on such harsh riding tires.

Prior To DK I also swapped out the cranks for a set of 5800 105 compacts.  I knew I didn't need the 50 tooth big ring, but the 34 tooth small ring gave me a little more bottom end with the stock 11-32 cassette.

I was only about three miles into DK when the front derailleur started giving me problems.  When I got to the first check point in Madison I gave it a thorough wash-down and it worked until the next stream crossing, just a couple of miles further.  This was how it went for the rest of the day- wash the derailleur down at the checkpoints, then loose it again as soon as it got a little muddy.  Oh well.......

I got home from DK and decided the 105 front derailleur had to go.  I replaced the 105 chain rings for an asymmetric 42 tooth Drop Stop from Wolf Tooth.  I added a dog fang style chain catcher in case the chain falls off the inside of the ring.  If it ever drops off the outside (it hasn't yet) I'll add a bash guard.  So far so good.  I swapped out the 11-32 cassette for an 11-40.  A Wolf Tooth Road Link hanger extender was added; the medium cage 5800 rear derailleur shifts great, and it looks like I could go to an 11-42 with no problems.  Best of all, by losing the front derailleur I can now easily fit tires 45mm or wider.

The Hed Tomcats have held up well but I just didn't feel all that confident flying down rough, 40mph grades on cheap wheels with a low spoke count (I'm a big guy)   .  Add to that, the bearings in my rear hub were sub-par, and no amount of tinkering made them run smoothly.  The new wheels are smooth as butter, 28/32 spokes, with tried and true Kinlin TL-23 rims.

I know these are a lot of modifications to a pretty cheap, entry level bike. The frame fits me well and I see no need to replace it this season.  Other posters have commented about the cable brakes, but they work good enough for me.  Oh yeah, they do work a whole lot better after I got rid of the so-so TRP pads and installed N+T pads.

Thanks for the update from a much more serious off pavement rider. We seem to be on the same trajectory -- but at different levels. I haven't had any problems with my 105 front der. - except that I find the 11 speed design harder to adjust. I wish there was a better cable slack take up screw on the down tube instead of the in line device on the cable itself. My tire upgrade was to 40 mm Maxxis Ramblers TR. Haven't had any problems running them tubeless at 30-35 PSI on maintained dirt and gravel. But DK is a different story. At least you finished on your "entry level" bike! Lots of others on more expensive rides didn't make it this year. Ditto for the Tomcat wheels. I'm itching to upgrade to custom built wheels; but my Tomcat's are holding up very well. Like you, I like the frame. Good handling characteristics - and seems very durable. My only complaint is front wheel foot clearance for my size 11.5 feet. I guess switching to 1x11 would cure any front der. issues; but I like the 46/36, which to me seems almost like a 1x11 because of the gear ratio overlap between the two rings. But I'm running 11x40 11 speed mtn. bike cassette with a Wolftooth Road link.

I feel your pain bobknh, my hind paws are clad in size 14 shoes.  I thought I got used to the problem while riding short wheelbase track bikes back in the 70's, but I certainly had a couple of low speed "oh shoot" moments while crossing cricks!

fatcharlie wrote:I feel your pain bobknh, my hind paws are clad in size 14 shoes.  I thought I got used to the problem while riding short wheelbase track bikes back in the 70's, but I certainly had a couple of low speed "oh shoot" moments while crossing cricks!

Where did you ride track in the 70's? In the early 60's, I raced on the Kissena Park Track in Flushing NY. I wasn't very good on the track. But, I used the weekly races at Kissena as speed work. I was a student at Queens College in Flushing, not too far from the track. Even rode my track bike (sans brakes) to school. Those were the days - no helmet, no brakes

I raced at the Encino velodrome in SoCal.. \n

fatcharlie wrote: 
Here are a couple of pics of my Haanjo Comp.  I purchased it at REI last November for $1300 (minus $130 dividend).  I immediately swapped out the saddle for a Terry Fly and the seatpost for carbon, the pedals were switched to Eggbeater 2's, later to the Candy 2's that are still on it.  I also added the auxiliary brake levers while the bike was still fairly new.

I knew I wanted to go tubeless but I just couldn't get the stock Kenda Happy Mediums to work with the stock Hed Tomcat wheels.  I bought a pair of WTB Nano 40's and they snapped right into place (tubelessly) and worked great.  I took the bike to it's first real race, a 120 miler, and by the time I crossed the finish line the Nano's were rubbing the front derailleur lever arm when it was on the big ring.  I measured the Nano's and they were 42.5 mm wide at 38 psi; the frame and 105 front derailleur combination wouldn't allow anything wider than 41mm.  Luckily, I won a pair of Terravail Cannonball tires at that event.  I'd read a lot of good things about how tough they are (and some not so good things about their harsh ride quality), and at 38mm wide I knew they would clear the front derailleur.  I mounted them up and took them for a couple of test rides before I decided these would be THE tires for Dirty Kanza.  They got me through DK with nary a flat, but my sit zone was extremely beat up after 206 miles on such harsh riding tires.

Prior To DK I also swapped out the cranks for a set of 5800 105 compacts.  I knew I didn't need the 50 tooth big ring, but the 34 tooth small ring gave me a little more bottom end with the stock 11-32 cassette.

I was only about three miles into DK when the front derailleur started giving me problems.  When I got to the first check point in Madison I gave it a thorough wash-down and it worked until the next stream crossing, just a couple of miles further.  This was how it went for the rest of the day- wash the derailleur down at the checkpoints, then loose it again as soon as it got a little muddy.  Oh well.......

I got home from DK and decided the 105 front derailleur had to go.  I replaced the 105 chain rings for an asymmetric 42 tooth Drop Stop from Wolf Tooth.  I added a dog fang style chain catcher in case the chain falls off the inside of the ring.  If it ever drops off the outside (it hasn't yet) I'll add a bash guard.  So far so good.  I swapped out the 11-32 cassette for an 11-40.  A Wolf Tooth Road Link hanger extender was added; the medium cage 5800 rear derailleur shifts great, and it looks like I could go to an 11-42 with no problems.  Best of all, by losing the front derailleur I can now easily fit tires 45mm or wider.

The Hed Tomcats have held up well but I just didn't feel all that confident flying down rough, 40mph grades on cheap wheels with a low spoke count (I'm a big guy)   .  Add to that, the bearings in my rear hub were sub-par, and no amount of tinkering made them run smoothly.  The new wheels are smooth as butter, 28/32 spokes, with tried and true Kinlin TL-23 rims.

I know these are a lot of modifications to a pretty cheap, entry level bike. The frame fits me well and I see no need to replace it this season.  Other posters have commented about the cable brakes, but they work good enough for me.  Oh yeah, they do work a whole lot better after I got rid of the so-so TRP pads and installed N+T pads.

\n \nThanks. That was very informative. Just about to buy two of these bikes for my wife and myself. Both roadies and trying out off road. \n \nCouple of questions. Changing the crank. Did that involve any BB change too? This is some FSA type right? \n \nAlso, which wheels did you switch to?

fatcharlie wrote:I raced at the Encino velodrome in SoCal..

Cool - I quit bike racing around 1965 to raise a family and pay off a mortgage. Became a long distance runner in the 70's, came back to cycling in the 80's via triathlon, and started Masters age group racing in the 90's until a bad back forced me to retire from racing 7 years ago. Long strange trip.

deepakvrao wrote: Thanks. That was very informative. Just about to buy two of these bikes for my wife and myself. Both roadies and trying out off road. Couple of questions. Changing the crank. Did that involve any BB change too? This is some FSA type right? Also, which wheels did you switch to?

I used a 6800 bottom bracket, available many places for <$20.00.  I built the wheels up from scratch, all the parts being sourced from BikeHubStore.com.  The hubs are MTB180/MTB270 in 28/32 spokes.  The rims are Kinlin TL23, and the spokes are Sapim Lasers. My total cost to build the wheels was about $353 plus a couple of hours of my labor.  Prior to adding valve stems, rotors, and cassette, they weighed 1660g.

I think most people would be satisfied with the stock Tomcat wheels.  They are light enough and they can be run tubeless.  I was unlucky enough to get a set with a rough bearing, and I just prefer more spokes.

fatcharlie wrote:

I used a 6800 bottom bracket, available many places for <$20.00.  I built the wheels up from scratch, all the parts being sourced from BikeHubStore.com.  The hubs are MTB180/MTB270 in 28/32 spokes.  The rims are Kinlin TL23, and the spokes are Sapim Lasers. My total cost to build the wheels was about $353 plus a couple of hours of my labor.  Prior to adding valve stems, rotors, and cassette, they weighed 1660g.

I think most people would be satisfied with the stock Tomcat wheels.  They are light enough and they can be run tubeless.  I was unlucky enough to get a set with a rough bearing, and I just prefer more spokes.

Hi Fatcharlie - I haven't messed with my Haanjo stock FSA cranks or BB. My guess is that it uses press fit cups. Am I wrong? If they are press fit 30, they may need an adapter to to work with 6800 cups. Yes?

Nope, they are standard English thread, 68mm by whatever.

bobknh wrote:
Hi Fatcharlie - I haven't messed with my Haanjo stock FSA cranks or BB. My guess is that it uses press fit cups. Am I wrong? If they are press fit 30, they may need an adapter to to work with 6800 cups. Yes?

This got me wondering.  Removing the stock ranks was pretty straightforward, once I figured how the FSA self-extracting cranks worked.  The cups unscrewed just like what I've always referred to as "English", reverse threaded on the right, etc.  The Shimano 6800 cups screwed back in and everything went together, easy-steasy.  

So, I just looked at the Diamondback website, and they have the Haanjo Comp specced with a BB386 EVO bottom bracket.  I don't know if they changed the spec in the middle of a production run or what?  My 2016 Haanjo Comp most definitely has screw in cups.

fatcharlie wrote:

This got me wondering.  Removing the stock ranks was pretty straightforward, once I figured how the FSA self-extracting cranks worked.  The cups unscrewed just like what I've always referred to as "English", reverse threaded on the right, etc.  The Shimano 6800 cups screwed back in and everything went together, easy-steasy.  

So, I just looked at the Diamondback website, and they have the Haanjo Comp specced with a BB386 EVO bottom bracket.  I don't know if they changed the spec in the middle of a production run or what?  My 2016 Haanjo Comp most definitely has screw in cups.

Yes- it's confusing. If you check the FSA site, they seem to say that the BB386 EVO is a press fit. I'll check with DB support via chat when I have some time. In the past, they've been very responsive to my inquiries. I hope you are right -- I much prefer old style english threaded bb shells. Easier to service, and less likely to creak.

bobknh wrote:
Yes- it's confusing. If you check the FSA site, they seem to say that the BB386 EVO is a press fit. I'll check with DB support via chat when I have some time. In the past, they've been very responsive to my inquiries. I hope you are right -- I much prefer old style english threaded bb shells. Easier to service, and less likely to creak.

I checked with my local pro mechanic - yes, the Haanjo Comp bb shell is threaded - BSA standard english. You cab easily upgrade to any crankset and bb that uses that standard. Yeah!!! I happen to own lots of nice hollow tech cranks that I can install to replace the stock FSA. There is nothing wrong with the stock FSA. It's a 172.5 though. I prefer a 175's. Not a big deal, but since all my other bikes run 175's, and I have a 175 Stages power meter, I'd like to eventually switch.

The HED Tomcat (called Flanders for MY2015, but still the same thing) are the OEM version of their Ardennes Plus. It's a strong (enough) rim and thick spokes connected to a somewhat low end hub. HED specifically says it's good for riders up to 250lbs. It's a pretty strong wheel. The rim is rated for road pressures too. It goes tubeless very easily. The stock tape won't work though. Stan's 25mm tape and the Specialized (Scotch 8896) 24mm tape both fit well. If you want to go road tubeless, 2 wraps of Stans or 3 wraps of Scotch is the ticket. Heck, do that amount no matter what to make going tubeless easier. The rim isn't built to the larger dimensions that a Stan's style rim is, so tires fit a little looser. An air compressor or a newer charger style pump is your best bet for inflating a tubeless tire. Don't bother with anything else. The stock Kenda Happy Mediums go tubeless just fine. The sidewalls will get a little leaky <1,000 miles though. Throwing some ground pepper and/or glitter in your sealant can help with that. TCS (UST specifications) tires don't go on those wheels super easy, but they inflate much easier than tires with looser beads.

The frame is thread, but stock bottom bracket is BB386 dimensions. That means in its stock form, it accepts a 30mm axle up to 86mm in width.  You can take the FSA crank out and slip in ANY BB386 crank. A Rotor 3d+ would fit right in there. Since the frame is threaded, you can put any threaded bottom bracket in there and run whatever crank you want. If you want to run a Shimano crank, grab a $25 Shimano bottom bracket and install it. Then slip your Shimano crank in. Done deal. You can put a "BB386" bottom bracket on (almost) any threaded frame to run BB386 cranks.

11 speed road style front derailleurs were never really designed with wide tires in mind. The arm of the FD rubbing on tires is a problem on many bikes. There is a sweet spot where it just works on most bikes as long as your tire isn't above ~40mm. Going 1x is also an option. I think that's part of the reason the new Dura Ace group has a FD without the long arm. Expect that to trickle down the next couple years.

Rear thru axles have no tangible 'stiffness' benefit in an unsuspended frame. Manufacturers and frame designers agree on that. Rotor rub typically happens to people that can't figure out how to install a wheel. I'm not sure I would trust them much more to figure out a thru axle. TA's can make a difference up front, but the Haanjo fork is really stout. I haven't noticed any real differences between that fork and my TA cross bike. Don't let QR vs. TA be a deciding factor on a 'gravel' type bike.

dangle wrote:The HED Tomcat (called Flanders for MY2015, but still the same thing) are the OEM version of their Ardennes Plus. It's a strong (enough) rim and thick spokes connected to a somewhat low end hub. HED specifically says it's good for riders up to 250lbs. It's a pretty strong wheel. The rim is rated for road pressures too. It goes tubeless very easily. The stock tape won't work though. Stan's 25mm tape and the Specialized (Scotch 8896) 24mm tape both fit well. If you want to go road tubeless, 2 wraps of Stans or 3 wraps of Scotch is the ticket. Heck, do that amount no matter what to make going tubeless easier. The rim isn't built to the larger dimensions that a Stan's style rim is, so tires fit a little looser. An air compressor or a newer charger style pump is your best bet for inflating a tubeless tire. Don't bother with anything else. The stock Kenda Happy Mediums go tubeless just fine. The sidewalls will get a little leaky <1,000 miles though. Throwing some ground pepper and/or glitter in your sealant can help with that. TCS (UST specifications) tires don't go on those wheels super easy, but they inflate much easier than tires with looser beads.

The frame is thread, but stock bottom bracket is BB386 dimensions. That means in its stock form, it accepts a 30mm axle up to 86mm in width.  You can take the FSA crank out and slip in ANY BB386 crank. A Rotor 3d+ would fit right in there. Since the frame is threaded, you can put any threaded bottom bracket in there and run whatever crank you want. If you want to run a Shimano crank, grab a $25 Shimano bottom bracket and install it. Then slip your Shimano crank in. Done deal. You can put a "BB386" bottom bracket on (almost) any threaded frame to run BB386 cranks.

11 speed road style front derailleurs were never really designed with wide tires in mind. The arm of the FD rubbing on tires is a problem on many bikes. There is a sweet spot where it just works on most bikes as long as your tire isn't above ~40mm. Going 1x is also an option. I think that's part of the reason the new Dura Ace group has a FD without the long arm. Expect that to trickle down the next couple years.

Rear thru axles have no tangible 'stiffness' benefit in an unsuspended frame. Manufacturers and frame designers agree on that. Rotor rub typically happens to people that can't figure out how to install a wheel. I'm not sure I would trust them much more to figure out a thru axle. TA's can make a difference up front, but the Haanjo fork is really stout. I haven't noticed any real differences between that fork and my TA cross bike. Don't let QR vs. TA be a deciding factor on a 'gravel' type bike.

Thanks for the info. It confirms my impression that the Haanjo comp is a great way to get into GG. I haven't had any front. der. problems rubbing my 40mm Ramblers or the stock Happy Mediums. But, I find the 11 speed Shimano front der. harder to setup with proper cable tension. Hope they go back to the old design. I have an old Durace 10 speed that I may try.

Thanks Dangle, that verifies much of what I was thinking. I have only used a single wrap of Scotch 8896 tape on a couple of wheelsets, with no problems yet. Do you think I'm at risk of blowing it out at a spoke hole?