While I could probably buy two cassettes in order to assemble one with the gearing I want, that seems rather wasteful and I'd have to go through the same exercise every time I needed a new cassette, say for my spare wheels. The only 11 speed cassettes I've seen with a 12t cog are Dura Ace, which are pretty pricey. I haven't seen Shimano individual cogs available separately, but if anyone knows of a source, I'd love to hear about it. I imagine that it's like most things Shimano, small parts are simply not available.
As for the frame, it's designed to use a road crank with a standard 43.5mm chainline, which I verified with Niner (all of their 'cross bikes come with road cranks). I measured the chainline directly, then also did the measure and calculate method, and they both indicate a chainline of ~44mm. I don't know what Niner did to achieve this, but I suspect that they offset the BB shell slightly. The frame has a PF30 BB, but comes with an PF30-to-BSC threaded adapter and a Shimano threaded road BB installed. There are no spacers, nor anything unusual about the BB installation that I can see.
I answered my first question above. Miche makes a variety of 11-speed cassettes that start with 12 tooth (or larger) cogs. There are vendors on Ebay (and likely elsewhere) who will custom build cassettes to your specifications. The reviews seem good, so I'll probably give one a try.
I ride 1x (in the midwest) and this graph helped me make that decision. The green lines are 34/50 x 11-28. The purple is 42 x 11-40 (Shimano XTR). The Y axis is mph @90rpm. Assumes 700x40c tires. The dark pink zones are speeds that I felt to be beyond what I needed to accommodate. The white 'cruising' zone in the middle is where I spend most of my time. Things to note:
• 30mph @90rpm is not bad at the top end, but if you'll be doing long fast paved descents it might be limiting. • At the low end, 42x40 is lower than 34x28. • Through the 'cruising' zone, the 1x gives me 4 gears, where a 50t on a 2x would give me 5. Not a deal breaker.
I agree with your assessment on the top end, as I only run a 50 x 13 (104" gear, calculated using 27" wheel diameter) on my road bikes, which allows me to hit 34-35mph at 110-115 rpm. I only use it going downhill and I figure if the gearing isn't high enough, I'm better off coasting. I don't need that much off-road, so I'll likely go with a 44 x 12 (99" gear). However, if I correct it for 37-40mm tires, it's more like 100-101".
If that low end works for you, that's great, but some of us need lower gearing to accommodate steep terrain. I managed to struggle up some local town forest trails that were easily 20% yesterday in a 36x32, but I would have been grateful for lower gearing. I'm not fond of huge gearing jumps either, so unfortunately your solution just wouldn't work for me.
I like the simplicity of a 1x and tried it for a while a few years ago (before SRAM 1x systems made it popular), but just found it too limiting for my needs. I'm glad that you're enjoying it and it sounds like you made a smart decision based on your particular requirements.
A correction to my previous post: The graph shown was computed at 95rpm, not 90. My apologies.
bnystrom, I'm generally in agreement with you that there are reasons to sometimes prefer 2x. However, my experience suggests the "huge jump" arguments are overstated. Notice that in my graph, both the 50/11-28 and the 42/11-40 have 2-tooth jumps through the entire 'cruising' range from 16 to 25mph. To get tighter jumps through that range, you'd have to sacrifice somewhere else (at the low end, most likely), or use the small ring on a double with a fairly heavily crossed chain.
Before I built my gravel bike, I experimented with a monster cross running 34/11-25 on a favorite wooded crushed-limestone loop that is all up-and-down with a couple really steep bits. I found that with the tight jumps, I was frequently shifting 3-4 steps at a time on quick transitions from down to up and vice versa. And, of course, I was limited at both ends. The 2-tooth steps on the gravel bike I now ride there are much cleaner in that situation, and the 42/11-40 gives me all the gears I need.
That's not to say that I don't appreciate 1-tooth jumps when they're appropriate. I put a 12-25 on my (2x) road bike specifically to get the 18t cog that was missing from the 11-25 (the 18 being much more useful to my old legs than the 11). But sometimes with 1-tooth jumps, I'm not even sure that the shift took, it's so close. And to get those tight jumps, I'm sacrificing at both ends, even on a 2x system.
I guess my point is that the difference between the jumps in 1x and 2x are not so different as one would assume. And if you consider what gears you actually use, the range is not so different either.
I've ridden a lot of miles on 2x and a lot of miles on 1x. You can make either work.
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\nMost folks running gravel 1x are using 38t up to 45t chainrings. I started with a 38 and later moved up to a 40. With an 11-36 on the back that's enough range for the type of terrain I'm riding...which is characterized by some super steep hills but no climb that is more than 500 feet.
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\nOne word of caution, though, other riders will figure out what your chainring is. If it's 36 or 38 they'll know they can spin out you just by riding at 30mph or more for a few miles. Riders use that trick on me quite frequently even with the 40t chainring. But if you're comfortable with BMX-like cadence maybe it's not a concern.
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\nOne more thumb up for 1x simplicity! Gravel racing can be hard on the front end shifting mechanism & I spent plenty of race time yanking the chain out from between the bottom bracket shell and the crank arms. Had the chain catch and jam between the large and small chainrings before & rip off the rear derailleur. None of those problems with 1x, but you do have to pay extra attention to chain length...make sure there is enough chain tension to keep the chain on the chainring when the rear derailleur is on the small cog. Otherwise you'll hit a bump and drop the chain.
I agree that the gearing jumps aren't as noticeable off-road, but on-road - either dirt or paved - I notice them quite a bit (I'm used to a 50/34 with a 13-26 cassette on the road). Given that I'm already less than happy with the feel of the 11-32 cassettes I'm currently using, the larger gearing jumps on an 11-40 cassette are not a desirable option for me.
Once I change the crank to 44 x 30, I'll probably switch the cassette on one set of wheels (used primarily on roads) to a 12-28 and the perhaps switch the other set (used primarily off-road) to a 12-32 at some point by replacing the 12 tooth cog and inserting a 15 tooth cog.
Again, if your setup works for you, that's all that matters. There is no right or wrong here, just differences in personal preferences.
What crank are you planning to use for 44x30? This might be of interest: I recomputed the graph for 44/30/12-28 (green) v 42/11-40 (purple). Definitely tighter jumps through the cruising range with that 44/12-28 combo, especially above 20mph.
Sugino makes three cranks that are available with that gearing, the OX601D, the OX901D Classic Compact Plus and the the OX901D Compact Plus. The latter of the 901's (my choice) is the lightest and the nicest looking IMO, but the 601 is ~$100 cheaper. In addition to the 44/30 option, you can buy smaller, they just don't offer them as a complete crank. There is a vendor (Alex Cycles?) that allows you to custom configure a Sugino crank, but their pricing is much higher than ordering directly from Sugino in Japan. I'm planning to order one this week, perhaps even tonight.
If you go any smaller, you'll likely need to use a MTB front derailleur, in case that matters.
FSA is making a sub-compact SL-K modular BB386EVO Crankset that's lighter (it's carbon), but only goes down to 46/30 and is nearly impossible to find currently.
Crank Set White Industries VBR Road - 170mm, black Chainrings White Industries VBR - 44/30t (outside Wolf Tooth recommendation of 10t gap) Bottom Bracket White Industries JIS Square $ - english, 68 x 113, stainless Brake / Shifter Levers Shimano ST-5800-L - 11sp mechanical/mechanical Front Derailleur Shimano FD-5800-L Rear Derailleur Shimano RD-M8000-GS - 2x 11-42t Hanger adapter Wolf Tooth TanPan - converts road lever pull to match mtb rear derailleur Cassette Shimano CS-M7000 - 11-40t Chain Shimano CN-HG600-11
I could use a chain catcher to keep the chain from dropping on downshifts. I don't think these chainrings upshift as well as Shimano rings, or maybe I'm just a sloppy shifter.
Crank Set White Industries VBR Road - 170mm, black Chainrings White Industries VBR - 44/30t (outside Wolf Tooth recommendation of 10t gap) Bottom Bracket White Industries JIS Square $ - english, 68 x 113, stainless Brake / Shifter Levers Shimano ST-5800-L - 11sp mechanical/mechanical Front Derailleur Shimano FD-5800-L Rear Derailleur Shimano RD-M8000-GS - 2x 11-42t Hanger adapter Wolf Tooth TanPan - converts road lever pull to match mtb rear derailleur Cassette Shimano CS-M7000 - 11-40t Chain Shimano CN-HG600-11
I could use a chain catcher to keep the chain from dropping on downshifts. I don't think these chainrings upshift as well as Shimano rings, or maybe I'm just a sloppy shifter.
Thanks for the reply. I figured you had to be using a mt bike rear derailleur with that much chain to manage. There's a lot of thought and money into that build.
My preferred drivetrain is 1x1. Certainly not doable for all the areas I ride though. For those I ride a 2x11. I tried 1x11 and it was ok. But I wasn't a huge fan of the jumps between gears. With more time I'm sure I could have gotten used to it or if not I probably could have swapped a cog or two in the troubling part of the cassette.
Thanks for the reply. I figured you had to be using a mt bike rear derailleur with that much chain to manage. There's a lot of thought and money into that build.
How is pedaling in your 30 front and 40 rear?
Indeed, it took a lot of time to work all that out. I'm an old randonneur and ultramarathoner and on the 15%+ grades (thankfully somewhat short) I encounter here in New England that 30x40 is much appreciated. Granted, I'm riding roads mostly and on gravel it might be hard to stay upright going that slow, but on roads it's fine. The Seven can handle 44c tires and one day I'll go back to do D2R2 on it.
I want to modify my earlier reply. I primarily ride alone on gravel. I don't have a group to ride with. 1x works excellent for me.......BUT now I am on ragbrai and I also did the optional gravel loop. I am discovering that my 11x42 rear gear, while having plenty of top and low end, has poor steps between gears and it is REALLY noticeable when you get fatigued. One gear is too low to keep up with your group and the next is too high. You are screwed and you end up getting slowly left by the group as they are 1-2 mph faster than you and you can't do anything about it. Ask me how I know lol. I bonked BAD Sunday and needed that in between gear to hang with the pack and I didn't have it. The only solution for me is to drop my front ring from 42 down to 38 or 36 and then put my 11x32 or 11x36 cassette back on to get tighter spacing and still have sufficient low end but then I don't have my top end. Not sure whether I want to send the money to convert it it not but I don't know any other remedy to this except 2x or 3x. I could have used an 11x28 rear cassette Sunday but I don't have the front gearing to accommodate. And fwiw I ride gravel in southern Iowa and have around 800 miles total this year and over 30000 feet in elevation so I need my low end. 42 front and 11x28 rear won't cut it sadly.....
Bike came with 50/34 and a 11-28...went to 1x 42 with a 11-40...love it. Yeah, the jumps are larger in a few spots but it's not a big deal to me. Have considered going to a 11-36 with a 38 to tighten up the spacing but will loose a little higher end which probably isn't a big deal for the type of riding I do so I stick with what I have.
Here's my dilemna. This last season was my first year of gravel riding after being hit/clipped by a drunk in Jan. on a night ride. I spent Easter alone so I had lots of time doing some bike searching and found the Raleigh Corporate discount over at Bike forums.
Bought the 2016 Raleigh Tamland 1 for $799 and $49 tax
Right after getting the bike I had some major medical issues mainly collarbone nerve pain for about 3 months which has since gone away. Right out of the box I tried climbing my local mt. which is at 3 miles 7-8% grade with nasty washboard and ruts and tough climbing. It is worse coming off it. At first the bike scared the jeebers out of me on the descents as I couldn't get the bike to stop. The rear disk brake caliper wasn't adjusted right and now works/brakes fine.
I had the Sram 11 x 36 put on the bike with the road link. I don't know what you call it either chaining or something else. But when I am in the 50th high gear out in the last 2-3 gears and stop pedaling it grabs or has a funny feeling.
Now the problem.
I know for a fact that I wasn't in the best shape I could have been this summer. You might be able to fake it out on the road but not gravel riding/racing. I want to buy the Roker since this is the last year for it.
I found a 2016 used one for $1400 but it is 2x. The 2017 will be around $1799 + $100 tax. The only problem I guess I fear is buying the 2016 and not have enough gearing like I had on the Tamland and then having the same problem I am having with the Sram 11 x 36 set up I have on it now.
I have always kind of drooled over the Roker(after I bought the Tamland and reading some ride reports on it)but bought the Tamland for the cheap price because if I didn't fall in love with gravel riding/racing(which I have) I wouldn't have much invested in a bike.
I now want to do all the bad ass ultra gravel rides out there get my butt in shape and see which one is the hardest even though weather conditions dictate that some of the time.
Would I be able to make any adjustments to the 2017 Roker if it didn't climb as well as I thought it would. Would test it out on the local mt. here and if that goes well it would climb anything else. Yes I know I have to get in shape but a 5 lb. lighter bike for the long rides will make riding them a little bit easier.
