Zurichman wrote:I have run Conti tires a lot at the roadie end. They always had hard to put on no matter what rim you have.
Zman
It is totally rim dependent. I have Conti tires I put on with my fingers on all sorts of rims. When I mounted my Conti 5000 tl on my WTB rim (i21) it went on with fingers until about the last few inches and then a very light effort with a tire lever. I'm not sure I even needed the lever the next time. Bead lock on WTB rims is excellent.
So it seems to me that your stated intention of riding mostly paved at higher pressure negates the benefit of running tubeless, other than a slight weight penalty. Why not run Conti Duraskin tires and latex tubes? Minimal chance of puncture, minimal chance of pinch flat based on road surface and higher oressure, and its worked for you for years. Why switch it up? I'm not a tubeless convert, as it seems it's addressing a minor issue with a whole new set of problems. Just my humble opinion.
Cmtgravel wrote:So it seems to me that your stated intention of riding mostly paved at higher pressure negates the benefit of running tubeless, other than a slight weight penalty. Why not run Conti Duraskin tires and latex tubes? Minimal chance of puncture, minimal chance of pinch flat based on road surface and higher oressure, and its worked for you for years. Why switch it up? I'm not a tubeless convert, as it seems it's addressing a minor issue with a whole new set of problems. .
My stated intention is to ride my new gravel bike, which will be equipped with TL wheels, on mainly paved roads. That's what we have locally, but some are in rough shape. Many have suggested tubeless and lower pressures. That maybe the way to go? I am not ruling that out. At the moment I simply have no experience with tubeless. I have never ridden Conti Duraskin/Gatorskins, but I did give latex tubes a solid try. Flat after flat. On one training ride both front and rear tires flatted and then both of my spare tubes. That was special. Never again. I put butyl tubes back on the bike and rode for several thousand miles before my next flat. If I stick with tubes on this new bike they will be butyl.
I have converted both of my bikes and my wife's bikes to tubeless (4 wheel sets total, two with 650bx47c tires, one 700x28c, and one 700x32c). I will never go back to tubes unless it's an emergency.
I can simply run lower pressures without worrying about pinch flats, which makes our bikes so much more comfortable. I was worried about running 28c tires tubeless (Hutchinson Fusion tires), but they have been SO comfortable. I used to run 28c tires at around 70-80 PSI or higher with tubes, and now I run them tubeless at 50-60 PSI. I rode countless training rides, charity rides (Bike MS, etc), and they have been bombproof. It didn't affect my speed at all and the comfort is night and day.
There is some more maintenance involved with tubeless tires. I do have to add sealant every few months, but its a task that takes me about 5-10 minutes for a wheel set, so it is completely worth it to me. I use Orange Seal Endurance and it seems to last quite a while.
I have only had one catastrophic flat, which occurred on my wife's bike. A piece of wire speared the tire all the way through to the rim tape and gouged a huge hole in the tape. No amount of sealant could have plugged that hole. But you know what? We threw a tube in and continued with our ride. Not a big deal. It could be hassle to do that with some tubeless tires, but it wasn't with her tire/wheel combo (Specialized Roubaix Pro 32c tires and Hunt 4 Seasons alloy wheels).
That's just my experience so far, and I'm sure others have had worse experiences than I have. I still carry tubes and a tire lever, just in case, but I am a complete tubeless convert.
Sorry, i hope i didnt come off as criticizing. I admit.i'm a bit of.a curmudgeon when it comes to this issue, as i've never seen the need for going tubeless personaaly. I have a little experience with latex tubes, and i'm not a fan. Only suggested for the weight benefit. I suggested the Conti's for their durability and puncture protection. I know many will disagree with my views on this, I just wanted to present the other side of the argument. Given your stated intended use, the benefit of switching to tubeless, with all its added headaches, seems minimal.
Cmtgravel wrote: I admit.i'm a bit of.a curmudgeon when it comes to this issue, as i've never seen the need for going tubeless personaaly. I have a little experience with latex tubes, and i'm not a fan. Given your stated intended use, the benefit of switching to tubeless, with all its added headaches, seems minimal.
If you never get flats, if you are not really worried about speed and if your roads are smooth then tubeless would not be of much benefit. I've been working out of town for five weeks in the Oceanside, Ca, area and they have a million smooth roads and great climbing hills everywhere. I took my road bike that has a regular tube rear tire in 26mm (that is as large as will fit) and a front 650bx47mm tire run tubeless. In five weeks I had one problem with the front tire where I ran over a number of goat heads and just made it back to my room. The next morning the rear tire (tube) was flat and when I put air in it, it deflated explosively. I've been using a rear latex tube for months and the stem patch seam finally gave out. Oh, well. The benefit of latex has nothing to do with weight. At similar pressures they ride much smoother and roll faster. But, they inevitably fail at the stem seam, at least for me. Then I go back to a butyl tube until the harsher ride annoys me and I go back. The front went flat as well, but the benefit there of tubeless is that you put air in it and then ride off and wait for the centrifugal force to push sealant to the hole and then never worry again. Tubeless and latex deliver a similar smoother ride but with tubeless you can really drop the pressure without fear of pinch-flats. My home roads are nothing like Oceanside and half of them are dirt, so riding 650bx47-52mm tires is the only way to go.
I agree. For me the biggest benefit of tubless is not getting pinch flats (along with not getting the rare puncture).
I ran those Conti gatorskins and 4seasons for about a decade. Punctures were extremely rare. I did cheat and run them tubless and did find a wet spot once at end of life, indicating a puncture that has sealed.
But I ride rough surfaces, don't ride at max PSI, and pinch flats were always a risk. That has totally gone away with tubless.
Tubeless is a hassle in some ways - mostly in mounting - although some go on super easy. The bike has to be ridden regularly (or at least have the tires rotated) to prevent the sealant from pooling and drying out. Sealant has to be topped off every ~ 6 months. Realistically, flats are rare in the front tire, and pinching is (for me) fairly rare in 50mm + tires. Since I like to swap out front tires, I just use a tube in that wheel. But my 32mm road slicks are tubless - just mount and forget for 6 months.
I am 200 lbs, ride a Allied Able and love the GK 32 slick for California rough roads leading to fire roads and/or pavement roads only. Most is hard packed, and I run around 80 psi..I currently run them tubed. I usually change tires from 40's to these and run tubeless with the 40's..
Cmtgravel wrote:Sorry, i hope i didnt come off as criticizing. I admit.i'm a bit of.a curmudgeon when it comes to this issue, as i've never seen the need for going tubeless personaaly. I have a little experience with latex tubes, and i'm not a fan. Only suggested for the weight benefit. I suggested the Conti's for their durability and puncture protection. I know many will disagree with my views on this, I just wanted to present the other side of the argument. Given your stated intended use, the benefit of switching to tubeless, with all its added headaches, seems minimal.
No offense taken. Thank you for your input! I haven't yet ordered them, but It looks like I will be going with Conti's 5000 TL in 32mm and I will try them tubeless.
I have 32mm Continental GP5000 tubeless tires on my gravel bike and they are fantastic on road and root infested Greenways. Great speed and confortable.
A rule of thumb... if it hurts or is too rough in gravel, your tire pressure is too high. If it's squirrely on the asphalt or hard packed gravel, your tire pressure is too low. We aren't all built the same, our bikes aren't carrying the same amount of weight. Tires all have a different feel as well. One set I can run 35psi and another set I can't get below 45 psi due to bump steer.
