Panaracer Plus Casing Ride Quality

I used to be a Panaracer Gravelking die hard, both the slicks and the SKs.  It was my exclusive tire of choice.  One of my favorite things about them was the supple ride quality.  This makes sense as Panaracer also makes Reneherse tires which are almost twice as expensive.  Then I suddenly went through about 5 tires in 2 months of riding with sidewall tears and large punctures.  Yes I was tubeless.  At that point I switched to WTBs and Teravail tires, and haven't had any issues since.  

Now that the plus casing is out, I'm tempted to go back to the gravelkings, especially with SS available.  I am wondering if folks can compare the ride quality (suppleness) of the normal casing versus plus casing on the panaracers.  I made the mistake of ordering a Teravail with the tough casing, and it felt like I was on a garden hose.  Went to light and supple, and I haven't had any problems with punctures, but my ass is way happier.

Thanks.

Which casing are you using with WTB?  Normal or SG2 (extra protection)?  I wore out normal casing Byways after 2500miles and decided to give GK SS (normal casing) a try.  So far so good, but I actually find the Byways casing to be even more supple even compared to the normal GK casing.  I don't have experience with the GK+ or WTB SG2 casings.  But I weigh 150lbs.

smoothmoose wrote:Which casing are you using with WTB?  Normal or SG2 (extra protection)?  I wore out normal casing Byways after 2500miles and decided to give GK SS (normal casing) a try.  So far so good, but I actually find the Byways casing to be even more supple even compared to the normal GK casing.  I don't have experience with the GK+ or WTB SG2 casings.  But I weigh 150lbs.

Normal WTB casings.  I agree - the WTB casings are also impressively supple.  And very tough.  (Knock on wood) - I don't think I have ever managed to flat a WTB tire.  I have a vivid memory of running my rigid singlespeed 29er into sharp small boulder at 25+ mph 15 years ago without any perceivable damage to the WTB tire or WTB rim.  They make good stuff.  Availability is a factor right now too and I just want to have more options.  I also loved how the panaracers rolled on pavement.

This is exactly the question I had a year ago or so when the 38 mm GK SK + came out.  On my diverge, I now have about 1500 miles on these tires.  Note,  prior to that I had the plain GK SK on this bike.  I ride about 50/50 gravel and road on this bike, and can see no difference in suppleness--tho I note that others on this site have stated that they may be a little stiffer.  I don't notice it and think this is a great tire and my preferred tire for mixed riding. As far as flats and sidewall issues, I have had no flats  or problems--tho that might be an issue on nasty gravel and sharper rocks, etc.  I am a big WTB fan--both resolutes and ventures on on my other bikes for more gnarly riding.    

Frank wrote:This is exactly the question I had a year ago or so when the 38 mm GK SK + came out.  On my diverge, I now have about 1500 miles on these tires.  Note,  prior to that I had the plain GK SK on this bike.  I ride about 50/50 gravel and road on this bike, and can see no difference in suppleness--tho I note that others on this site have stated that they may be a little stiffer.  I don't notice it and think this is a great tire and my preferred tire for mixed riding. As far as flats and sidewall issues, I have had no flats  or problems--tho that might be an issue on nasty gravel and sharper rocks, etc.  I am a big WTB fan--both resolutes and ventures on on my other bikes for more gnarly riding.    

That is super helpful. Thank you.  What kind of pressures are you running?  I assume you are setup tubeless?

Dogdude222 wrote:

Normal WTB casings.  I agree - the WTB casings are also impressively supple.  And very tough.  (Knock on wood) - I don't think I have ever managed to flat a WTB tire.  I have a vivid memory of running my rigid singlespeed 29er into sharp small boulder at 25+ mph 15 years ago without any perceivable damage to the WTB tire or WTB rim.  They make good stuff.  Availability is a factor right now too and I just want to have more options.  I also loved how the panaracers rolled on pavement.

Personally I think it's about a wash for me between the Byways and GK SS.  I got 2500 miles on the Byways and have about 400 miles on the GK SS right now.  I did get 3 punctures that sealed up (all from road debris - not gravel) on the Byways after about 1600 miles - after the last puncture I decide it was time to retire and not bother with a patch job.  Byways are noticeably more supple even though the blow-up small (I'm talking about the 40mm that blows up 38mm).  While the SS 38 blow up to about 39-40mm - they might roll a "tad" faster, but not really noticeable.  I haven't really PR anything significant since switching them in.  We'll see how long they last - my first set of GK slicks only lasted 800miles, but the SS are holding up much better.

So end of the day IMO, get which ever one is in stock, cheaper, or in the a fancy color (GK) you like.

DOGDUDE222--I RUN THE GK SK+ tubeless and even tho 38mm, they have stretched to just over 39 mm after about 6 mo on 22mm id rims.  My gk sk non+ 38's stretched to almost 40mm on these rims.   I run pressures 30-35 psi depending on the road type.  I weight 175-180.  

I have the GK+ slicks in 38 mm.  They ride very smoothly and measure about 40 mm wide and 35 mm high on 25 mm (inside) rims.  I've never used the non-plus version so I can't comment on the differences.

I haven't tried the Terravails and like the tread patterns of the other tires where Panaracer is manufacturer.

For this category I wonder if anyone else has been pleasantly surprised by the Bontrager GR1? I joined the opinion some associates have after their being part of my bike's wheel package. I don't like all of their tires but sure do for one of their MTB models and these. They're advertised as having protective layer and don't feel sterile or hard like their last commuter tires I had.

This was a few years ago already - new models since - but I didn't forget a friend at Trek who worked in prototyping saying some testing was showing all tires are pretty good if you can run them at low pressure. It was funny coincidence when I hopped on my commuter with some nothing special Kenda tires and didn't take time to inflate them for a trip to the hardware store.

That Trek associate does a lot of teasing on how most riders over think gear. When my late teen twins get on a bike I see the point, and same for looking at my sports app times for close to home rides we do hundreds of times on different bikes. 

I haven't use the GK & the GK+ back to back, so hard to say for sure, but I think I run a lower pressure in the plus version to get a similar feel. I'm running 33/37 in the 38 slicks and I'm 180. Think I ran a few more pounds in the regular version. So far no flats though. According to BRR, the plus version is significantly slower thatn the regular version though.

AmericanTemplar wrote:I haven't use the GK & the GK+ back to back, so hard to say for sure, but I think I run a lower pressure in the plus version to get a similar feel. I'm running 33/37 in the 38 slicks and I'm 180. Think I ran a few more pounds in the regular version. So far no flats though. According to BRR, the plus version is significantly slower thatn the regular version though.

I'm gonna have to try some slightly lower pressures in these.  On 25iW rims I've been using 38f/50r, but I do weigh 200 lbs.

mtbnut87 wrote:

I'm gonna have to try some slightly lower pressures in these.  On 25iW rims I've been using 38f/50r, but I do weigh 200 lbs.

I'm on 21mm ID. I've even ridden them over very rocky terrain, with lots of square edges, and I haven't gotten any rim strikes at those pressures.

AmericanTemplar wrote:I haven't use the GK & the GK+ back to back, so hard to say for sure, but I think I run a lower pressure in the plus version to get a similar feel. I'm running 33/37 in the 38 slicks and I'm 180.

I'm around 165 and ran my 38 GK+ slicks at 38/42 psi at which they were very smooth.

So far no flats though. According to BRR, the plus version is significantly slower than the regular version though.

BRR shows the Plus burning about 6 W more but their test is complicated by using different sizes.  I guess that's a side effect of their voting system.

BRR also shows the puncture score about 70% better for the Plus but I don't think that tells the whole story.  All of the Panaracer-made tires I've used (including Soma and Rene Herse) have been glass magnets.  Their treads got all cut up and between punctures I was constantly picking glass out of them.  That hasn't happen with some other tires (Taraxagum, Marathon Almotion, Strada Bianca Pro) which I assume use harder rubber.

FWIW my current favorite bad road tire is the Strada Bianca Pro.  They roll really well, ride smoothly, and look like they're going to last a long time.  The treads are thick and after 400 km don't have a single cut or mark.  I suppose the tradeoff is traction since they're nearly slick and the rubber doesn't seem especially grippy.

stu wrote:I'm around 165 and ran my 38 GK+ slicks at 38/42 psi at which they were very smooth.

stu wrote:BRR shows the Plus burning about 6 W more but their test is complicated by using different sizes.  I guess that's a side effect of their voting system.

BRR also shows the puncture score about 70% better for the Plus but I don't think that tells the whole story.  All of the Panaracer-made tires I've used (including Soma and Rene Herse) have been glass magnets.  Their treads got all cut up and between punctures I was constantly picking glass out of them.  That hasn't happen with some other tires (Taraxagum, Marathon Almotion, Strada Bianca Pro) which I assume use harder rubber.

FWIW my current favorite bad road tire is the Strada Bianca Pro.  They roll really well, ride smoothly, and look like they're going to last a long time.  The treads are thick and after 400 km don't have a single cut or mark.  I suppose the tradeoff is traction since they're nearly slick and the rubber doesn't seem especially grippy.

Good point about the size difference--I hadn't noticed that. Though interestingly, BRR, says that the other GK's are specified as a 40 when, AFAIK, they don't make that size. 

I'm very interested in trying the Strada Bianca Pro at some point. But, I decided that I want to try out the GP5000 32's first--just to try out something that differs more from the GK's and Velocitas that I've been riding for the last several years. And I recently picked up a set of 650b wheels with 2.1" Racing Ralphs, so I figured I'd go even further to the road end of the spectrum with my 700c wheels.

AmericanTemplar wrote:Good point about the size difference--I hadn't noticed that. Though interestingly, BRR, says that the other GK's are specified as a 40 when, AFAIK, they don't make that size.

My 38 mm GK+ measured 40 mm on 25 mm (inside) rims.  BRR uses a 17.8 mm rim which IMHO is pretty small for that tire.

I'm very interested in trying the Strada Bianca Pro at some point. But, I decided that I want to try out the GP5000 32's first ...

I've also tried 32 mm GP5000s.  They're very fast, light, and reasonably priced but not large enough to smooth out bad pavement to my liking.  If they ever become available in 37 mm I'll order a pair the minute I get the news.  Meanwhile the Strada Bianca Pro is pretty close and handles big bumps better.  I think it's only downsides are limited off-road grip, high cost, and difficult mounting.

stu wrote:My 38 mm GK+ measured 40 mm on 25 mm (inside) rims.  BRR uses a 17.8 mm rim which IMHO is pretty small for that tire.

Yeah, they have "40" as the specified width and "37" as the measured

stu wrote:I've also tried 32 mm GP5000s.  They're very fast, light, and reasonably priced but not large enough to smooth out bad pavement to my liking.  If they ever become available in 37 mm I'll order a pair the minute I get the news.  Meanwhile the Strada Bianca Pro is pretty close and handles big bumps better.  I think it's only downsides are limited off-road grip, high cost, and difficult mounting.

Did you use the TL version of the GP5000? The Strada Bianca Pro's sound pretty appealing, but my GK+ are still pretty new, so I can throw those back on if I decide that the GP5K's aren't plush enough, and get the Strada Bianca Pro's next time.

AmericanTemplar wrote:

Did you use the TL version of the GP5000? The Strada Bianca Pro's sound pretty appealing, but my GK+ are still pretty new, so I can throw those back on if I decide that the GP5K's aren't plush enough, and get the Strada Bianca Pro's next time.

I have used the GP5000 TL's in 700 x 32c extensively.  They were my goto road tire for two years.  Rode them on pavement and gravel.  Built a gravel bike this year and switched to the GK+ Slicks 700 x 38.  I have a ton of segment data on Strava and this is where I take issue with BRR...  the GK+ Slicks are about 5w shy of the GP5000's on flats AND climbs for me.  But a LOT faster on gravel at the same power.  Interestingly, BRR rates the Maxxix Rambler very poorly.  I run them in "gravel mode" on my bike as 650x 47b.  They are just as efficient on pavement as the GK+ slick!  But they give up 10w on pavement climbs for me.  But on gravel, they make it up on flats AND climbs, and are worth their weight in gold on descents.  

BRR is a reference and nothing more.  Go ride them.  Do your own testing and then decide.

mtbnut87 wrote:

I have used the GP5000 TL's in 700 x 32c extensively.  They were my goto road tire for two years.  Rode them on pavement and gravel.  Built a gravel bike this year and switched to the GK+ Slicks 700 x 38.  I have a ton of segment data on Strava and this is where I take issue with BRR...  the GK+ Slicks are about 5w shy of the GP5000's on flats AND climbs for me.  But a LOT faster on gravel at the same power.  Interestingly, BRR rates the Maxxix Rambler very poorly.  I run them in "gravel mode" on my bike as 650x 47b.  They are just as efficient on pavement as the GK+ slick!  But they give up 10w on pavement climbs for me.  But on gravel, they make it up on flats AND climbs, and are worth their weight in gold on descents.  

 

BRR is a reference and nothing more.  Go ride them.  Do your own testing and then decide.

Interesting!

How do you do your testing? My weight fluctuates quite a bit as does the wind, and I'm too lazy to be regularly switching tires, so I've never really been able to isolate variables enough to determine whether a tire is fast or slow. 

AmericanTemplar wrote:

Interesting!

How do you do your testing? My weight fluctuates quite a bit as does the wind, and I'm too lazy to be regularly switching tires, so I've never really been able to isolate variables enough to determine whether a tire is fast or slow. 

I don't do testing per se...  I just ride a lot.  In a lot of different conditions....  but I keep track of them and some of my riding is in protected areas where wind is not an issue.  My weight has stayed constant for the last 2 years (unfortunately) so that is not an issue.  I have played with air pressure a bit, but find that within the range I'm playing with it's more about compliance than power loss.

The GP5000's TL's (32c, measure 34mm on my rims) were fast, but abusive on the broken pavement here and horrible on gravel.  The GK+ slicks (38c, measure 41mm on my rims) are a light year ahead in comfort, but are still only ok for nicely groomed, well used gravel roads.  For ANYTHING else, the 650x47b Ramblers are the sh*t!!! and roll super well on pavement.  I didn't believe my buddy who races out west when he told me, and then I "tested" (rode them a lot) and he was right.  The fastest "all around" tire I've ever ridden.  We rode a gravel race here yesterday and I raced a bunch of people the last 5 miles on pavement to the line and gave nothing up.

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AmericanTemplar wrote:Did you use the TL version of the GP5000?

I used the tube version with Aerothan tubes which are only 50 g.  BTW BRR will be testing those soon.

The Strada Bianca Pro's sound pretty appealing, but my GK+ are still pretty new, so I can throw those back on if I decide that the GP5K's aren't plush enough, and get the Strada Bianca Pro's next time.

I think the GK+ and Strada Bianca Pro have pretty much the same application.  Makes sense to wear out the GK+ first.

It will be some time before I'll be able to evaluate any differences in durability but right now I appreciate that Strada Bianca Pros don't follow grooves and other road irregularities like the GK+ do.