After a recent vacation where I used ridewithgps to explore a bit, I decided it was time to bite the bullet and make my road bike into an all-road bike. The beloved Mandaric can't take anything bigger than 25mm and that is very iffy when ride with GPS routes over unexpected gravel. So I'm taking my Niner frame and making a rigid, road-oriented bike out of it. Unfortunately, there are not a bunch of fast tires from which to choose in 45-50mm. The best I can come up with is the Gravelking Slick, or if I want to pay, Schwalbe has old model year G-One Speed with Onestar for $80. Any fast $650b tires I am missing?
The Pirelli Cinturato Gravel H should be nearly as fast as a GK slick but is probably tougher. The GK+ doesn't seem to be available in 650B sizes.
My 45-622 Gravel H seem pretty fast and are very comfortable. They're bigger than advertised, 49 mm on 30 mm rims (Guitar Ted measured 47 mm on 25 mm rims).
I just switched from WTB Byways (700x44), which I didn’t feel were slow (also available in 650x47) to Rene Herse Snoqualmie Ridge and they are definitely 1) quite a bit faster; 2) definitely in the willing to pay category! Their Switchback Hill is the 650x48 version of their slick. Their knobby tires are also supposed to be relatively quick (Juniper Ridge in 650x48). I got the extralights and no punctures yet, but only 200 miles on them so far … except for some tubeless teething pains (I’m a tubeless newb, so I blame me for that), they’re fantastic so far. Honestly, purchasing directly from Rene Herse was a bit of a hassle, so might order via lbs or other online retailer next time.
I have RH slicks in 38 mm extralight and 44 mm endurance. They're fast and smooth but I got constant flats with the extralight. I still got flats, though not so many, with the endurance. YMMV since the incidence of flats probably depends heavily on the roads you ride.
I've had no problems ordering from RH although their web site mentions they've had supply problems (like everyone else).
The only real issue I had with the ordering process was they fibbed about the actual availability of the tires, so they didn’t really come in until about a week after I ordered them. They fed me a line about how busy they were fulfilling orders after Unbound, but did ship the same day they announced full availability on their journal.
I'm not sure what you mean by fast, but I have 47c WTB horizon on my bike and the are pretty fast for being such a big tire. At least they feel fast to me in comparison to my 38c stock giant branded tires that have some tread as opposed to slick. I feel they roll about the same speed and the giants are 700c. The horizons are more supple but still roll pretty fast. They are like 53 bucks on amazon.
If the frameset can fit a 54mm (or just the fork), have a look at the Conti SpeedKing Racesport. 40gm heavier than the 48mm extralight ReneHerse filetread. I find them same rolling speed or a touch faster, and just as supple.
Maxxis does the 1.95"? (2.0) Maxxlite One70 Silkworm, which comes up about 49mm. Best suited for milder off-paved surfaces (rolling speed compared to a filetread). Low tread height. About 330gm which makes it the most supple (tubed) tyre in existence in my view. Blazingly fast in the gravel.
I don't think they are rated for tubeless but I did set them up as such. If your riding included quite a bit on road, you could perhaps do a ReneHerse filetread rear, with a One70 front.
Thanks all for the suggestions. I have heard about all of the suggested tires. The Pirelli is more tire than I need and slower. Byway/Horizons are not fast. The casing is actually pretty supple, but the tread is THICK. Like 3mm. My 47mm Byway and Horizon finally stopped holding air (sidewalls) and you could barely see any wear on the rubber. Multiple sources and personal experience put them 9-10 watts slower than the GK Slick.
Unfortunately, the Speedking Racesport is too big. I recently took a chance on that tire for my dual-sus gravel bike and that tire is awesome. It held air without sealant for weeks before I finally caught a goathead. And it is fast, not that I trust feel much, but the older version from five years ago tested faster than any gravel tires anyone makes now and I suspect it is faster still with the new version of Black Chili. The cross fork I'm using for this road-ish bike will only take about 47mm. I could clear it on the back but not the front.
Maxxis may be good for something, but rolling speed is not it. The BRR site regularly tests their tires as the slowest thing you can buy.
Rene Herse extralights are probably faster than the GK slicks, but they cost a ton and don't look reliable. For every person who said they were great, you'll see another that said they were trash. Tom A. tested the extralight Snoqualmie Pass and found it as fast as the GP4000SII, but they don't give me warm fuzzies.
ccand51997 wrote:... Unfortunately, the Speedking Racesport is too big. I recently took a chance on that tire for my dual-sus gravel bike and that tire is awesome. It held air without sealant for weeks before I finally caught a goathead. And it is fast, not that I trust feel much, but the older version from five years ago tested faster than any gravel tires anyone makes now and I suspect it is faster still with the new version of Black Chili. The cross fork I'm using for this road-ish bike will only take about 47mm. I could clear it on the back but not the front ...
You might consider another fork. For example my 3T Luteus II fork has 395 mm axle-to-crown, 50 mm rake, and about 10 mm clearance around 48-622 tires.
stu wrote:You might consider another fork. For example my 3T Luteus II fork has 395 mm axle-to-crown, 50 mm rake, and about 10 mm clearance around 48-622 tires.
That looks like a nice fork, but I have one that will fit 47mm and this project is going to come mostly out of hide. $550 for a new fork is $550 more than the budget allows. I would love the Speedking Racesport in 40 or 45mm but it only comes in 2.2 (mine measures almost 60 on a 29id rim) or 32mm for cyclocross.
I switched from Byways 650x47 to Switchback Hill 650x48 (Standard) and they're much faster on the road and feel cushier off-road (but still capable). No punctures yet after 5 months use. They seated and sealed fine, though the sidewalls started weeping a little after running them super low pressure once.
I opted for Continental Terra Trail 40mm tires, which is among the tires with lowest rolling resistance with serious tread and a 40mm width. Now, if I wanted "fast", I could switch to Continental Terra Speeds and save about 4 watts per tire, but I would lose a lot of tread and sacrifice width. At that point, I would use GP5000s 32mm which actually are fast tires, but without tread and with less puncture resistance.
According to BRR the faster gravel tires (17 to 20 W at 45 or 50 psi) are: Strada Bianca Pro Terra Speed GravelKing slick Cinturato Gravel H
The RH Barlow Pass Standard was close at 22 W. RH says the Extralight rolls about 8% faster which would put it around 20 W.
At 27 to 30 psi the Strada Bianca Pro, Terra Speed, and GravelKing slick increase to 24 to 25 W but the Cinturato Gravel H and Barlow Pass Standard increase to 28 to 29 W.
A bunch of others aren't far behind.
I've ridden the Strada Bianca Pro (tube type), GravelKing+ slick, Cinturato Gravel H, and Barlow Pass Extralight and I'm not sensitive enough to notice any differences in rolling resistance between them. I've also ridden the GP5000 which I can definitely tell is faster.
In my experience none of these have good puncture protection. The Barlow Pass Extralight was by far the worst in that regard. The BRR tests confirm that, if you want better puncture protection you should look at training or touring tires.
One issue is that laboratory testing best simulates paved roads, not gravel and dirt surfaces. I suspect that under these conditions, tire rolling resistance is more a factor or width, pressure and tread rather than compound, and tires of similar tread and width will be be equally "fast" at the same pressure.
John wrote:One issue is that laboratory testing best simulates paved roads, not gravel and dirt surfaces.
True. My 45 mm Cinturato Gravel H is much faster on rough surfaces than my GP5000.
I suspect that under these conditions, tire rolling resistance is more a factor or width, pressure and tread rather than compound, and tires of similar tread and width will be be equally "fast" at the same pressure.
And I suspect different terrain will favor different tires.
John wrote:There are no "fast" gravel tires. But there are comparatively fast once. Bicycle Rolling Resistance (.com) does a good job of testing.
I reference his site a few times a week and he does some pretty good work. I don't understand why some of the companies thought they had to reinvent the tire in order to call it 'gravel.' If Conti had simply made the Speedking and Raceking in 35-45 mm sizes then presto!--gravel tires. Schwalbe had a great gravel line-up before they regressed with their Addix trash and now their tires are really slow. A 35-47mm Road+ version of the Speedking, G-One Speed or better yet, 5000TL would be great tires and they already know how to make them. I keep waiting for the announcement that the tubeless 5000 will now be available in 650bx47 and/or 700x40 but they probably think the Terra Speed fills that niche even when it is quite a bit slower than the 5000.
John wrote:One issue is that laboratory testing best simulates paved roads, not gravel and dirt surfaces. I suspect that under these conditions, tire rolling resistance is more a factor or width, pressure and tread rather than compound, and tires of similar tread and width will be be equally "fast" at the same pressure.
Tires that are not fast on the drum are not suddenly going to be fast in the dirt unless you are pushing the limits of their cornering traction or rear wheel traction. I used to ride a 50mm G-One Speed offroad all the time and it was super fast for the same reasons it was fast on the road. I guess I just don't corner hard enough to need side knobs on the back. I used a Byway in 47 up front and that provided all the side traction I needed, though it was sluggish on the road. Really the Speedking Racesport is a very similar tire to the Byway but with much thinner tread, and made of Black Chili of course. I would run that tire and be done with it, even on the road, if it would fit.
Gotta admit, I did spend a couple hours trying to will another half inch of tire clearance into my bike so I could try running with those … didn’t work ;-)
Tires that are not fast on the drum are not suddenly going to be fast in the dirt unless you are pushing the limits of their cornering traction or rear wheel traction. I used to ride a 50mm G-One Speed offroad all the time and it was super fast for the same reasons it was fast on the road.
I did not say that Tires that are not fast on the drum are not suddenly going to be fast in the dirt -- I said the converse, that once the surface changes from pavement to gravel/dirt, rolling resistance will depend more on tire geometry than compound, and the gap between lab testing and real world will narrow.
Too bad real-world testing is difficult, although not impossible. About 10 years ago, one magazine published roll-out test data.
Everyone's gravel is different, so even if you somehow tested on a gravel drum it wouldn't be accurate to your local gravel. At least with the BRR test method you're comparing apples to apples.
