Fast 650bx 45-50mm tires

29 replies · 1,357 views

ccand51997
265 posts
#21Jul 25, 2021, 7:28 PM
Volsung wrote:

Off topic but Honeycrisp is the best apple.

Sorry, I'm going to have to go with Pink Ladies. They don't go brown after you cut them which is important because then you children won't go, "Ew, gross."
And I have to cut them because I lost my front teeth in a bike accident a decade or so back.
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ridetiltheend
7 posts
#22Jul 28, 2021, 8:16 AM
John wrote:There are no "fast" gravel tires. But there are comparatively fast once. Bicycle Rolling Resistance (.com) does a good job of testing. https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/cx-gravel-reviews

I opted for Continental Terra Trail 40mm tires, which is among the tires with lowest rolling resistance with serious tread and a 40mm width. Now, if I wanted "fast", I could switch to Continental Terra Speeds and save about 4 watts per tire, but I would lose a lot of tread and sacrifice width. At that point, I would use GP5000s 32mm which actually are fast tires, but without tread and with less puncture resistance.

I believe Terra Speeds are available in the same max width as the Terra Trail, 40C. I know the Speed has a rep as measuring a bit on the small side for its rated width, are you saying the 40C Trail actually measures wider? My 40C Terra Speeds are a great all around tire and roll really nice on pavement, certainly not as fast as a very fast road tire but I find it fine for extended sections of pavement, and I'm pretty picky about my rubber. So far its weakness seems to be mud as the knobs are very small. Does reasonably well on trails but of course not as well as a wider, more knobby tire. A great tire for mixed rides with significant amounts of pavement and smooth gravel where the rolling resistance helps, but with enough rougher terrain to justify the width.
The 32C GP5000 is indeed a very fast tire and what I use on the road where I've had great luck with punctures but of course off road is another story. I've used them on smooth gravel roads and they get the job done but I'm faster on gravel with the 40C Terra Speed due to the extra width and shock absorption. And of course the GP5000 is going to be dismal in mud, even if they made a wider width.
As a general comment: I think it's important to reinforce what others have said about the BRR drum testing, it predicts paved road performance reasonably well. Off road it can only predict rolling resistance compared with other tires if they have exactly the same width, tread pattern, and tread compound, which is rarely the case. It's easy to get fixated on those rolling resistance tests, once you get on any gravel that isn't really smooth, width and tread quickly become more important than smooth surface rolling resistance. While of course it all depends on your terrain, it's easy to end up with a tire that loses you more time off road than you gain on pavement if you go with a fast rolling tire that is too narrow and smooth for the off road portions of your ride.
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mtbnut87
168 posts
#23Jul 31, 2021, 1:36 PM
My wife and I recently traded in our road bikes, which we rode on gravel on 32c GP5000 TL's and built true gravel bikes that could take wide tires. Our "road tire" is a 38c Gravelking + slick, which on a known 3 mile, 6% avg. climb, took 235w as opposed to 225w for the 5000's to keep the same speed. So they're not too far off the real world mark... and I would agree with what's written above, the GP5000's are the fastest tires I've tested.
Our gravel tires are 650x47 Maxxis Ramblers. Been running these for mixed conditions for about two months. I'm 210 lbs. kitted and run them at 38r/33f. We have an off road ride planned for tomorrow, so the bikes were set up with for gravel and we decided to do a short pavement ride this morning, again on a course we know well so I have LOTS of data on many different permutations of bike/tires/wheels. The Ramblers are noticeably slower to get rolling, but once they are, other than the fact that they are even more comfy than the GK's, they *feel* no slower. The power numbers would seem to confirm that which I found difficult to believe... at the same power, the Ramblers are almost immeasurably slower than the GK's on pavement. We've ridden both tire wheel combos on the same gravel course as well and there the Ramblers take noticeably less power for the same speed, probably due to their larger volume.
I have a friend who rides DK every year. He raved about the Ramblers and told me that he did road rides with his buddies in Marin with them and had no problem keeping up. I thought he was a madman until I tried a set. Keep in mind that they are the only tires I've tried to date, as the 650b wheels are new since June. But as of right now, for mixed surfaces/all condition at least, I can't justify shelling out the money to try anything else. These work that well.

0
stu
646 posts
#24Jul 31, 2021, 3:08 PM
mtbnut87 wrote:Our gravel tires are 650x47 Maxxis Ramblers.
Are yours the 120/Exo or the 60/Silkshield?
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mtbnut87
168 posts
#25Jul 31, 2021, 3:12 PM
stu wrote:Are yours the 120/Exo or the 60/Silkshield?

I honestly couldn't remember, so snapped a pic

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stu
646 posts
#26Jul 31, 2021, 3:27 PM
Thanks. That seems to be the faster model.
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ccand51997
265 posts
#27Jul 31, 2021, 11:53 PM
mtbnut87 wrote:
But as of right now, for mixed surfaces/all condition at least, I can't justify shelling out the money to try anything else. These work that well.

The problem with any Maxxis, is that no Maxxis tire has EVER tested fast. Jarno almost refuses to test them anymore because they are really, really slow. A person riding any of the three or four Maxxis Mtb tires he tested would be give up between 20 and 30! watts to a Conti RaceKing protection. They may be great for other applications, in mud, better grip or something, but I can't imagine what properties they might have that could make up thirty watts if you were racing.
He has only tested one gravel tire, the Refuse, and actually recommended it, albeit with a low rating, because it is twice as puncture resistant as any other tire he tested. It is also easily the slowest gravel tire he tested. They just don't make fast tires.
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stu
646 posts
#28Aug 1, 2021, 1:13 AM
I've never ridden on Maxxis tires but according to their web site the Re-Fuse is the heaviest and looks like the slowest of their gravel tires (including Velocita, Rambler, and Ravager).

BRR has tested 3 Maxxis road tires. They found the 25-622 Re-Fuse 9 to 13 W slower than the respectable showings of the Padrone and High Road.
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jfranci3
126 posts
#29Aug 2, 2021, 11:34 AM
The Maxxis are not going to be as fast as the GK/ Rene slicks. I have them, and they are not as fast as my G-One Onestar (g-one speed 30c/allaround 38c/bite 650x50c) tires. Anything with decent size center knobs on gets a stiffer rubber compound to support the knobs. I'd look at the Challenge or Specialized pathfinder gravel tires if the GKs don't work for you.

Where are you riding? Slick 50c tires have a pretty limited use case (hard bumpy dirt, rocky soil, sandy potholes)
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ccand51997
265 posts
#30Aug 2, 2021, 6:19 PM
jfranci3 wrote:
Where are you riding? Slick 50c tires have a pretty limited use case (hard bumpy dirt, rocky soil, sandy potholes)

That sounds like what I ride most of the time actually. I still prefer my dual-sus drop bar bike with aerobars for most of that, though; what I'm trying to build is a road bike that can venture off the beaten path without worry. Probably 75 percent of the riding will be on the road and the gravel is not going to be crazy stuff. It is sort of the Road+ idea that WTB tried to float when it created the Horizon and Byway tires. It don't think it really took off because you have to ride squishy road tires before you have that "aha!' moment where you realize that you don't have to beat yourself up with 23mm tires pumped up to 100psi.

On another note: I raced the aforementioned Conti Speedking Racesport this past weekend and got a flat (with sealant) after the very first big downhill. I have to withdraw my unreserved admiration for the tire unless it was just very bad luck. It eventually sealed but I lost five minutes pumping it up twice. I'll probably go back to the RaceKing Protection and take the small speed hit. Or even try the Terra Speed.
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