Continental 50mm Gravel Tires

[QUOTE username=imwjl userid=5727258 postid=1332781476

I'm guessing the Terra Hardpack will be good but they still seem to be made of or from vaporware.

[/QUOTE]

I ordered some supposedly in stock Hardpacks 2 weeks ago from Europe.  They still have not shipped yet.  

ljsmith wrote:

Not really.  Its hard to compare tires from one category to another because the ratings are not using the same percent tire drop.  You have to compare the Medium RR for gravel to the 25psi RR for mountain.  Unfortunately unless you are a Pro member you can't even see the Medium rating.

IF you know his site well enough, he makes it pretty easy to make comparisons based off of your personal riding preferences.  For instance, I've spent plenty of time riding Speedkings at 25 psi off-road so I know that is a good pressure at at that pressure the old Speedkings were at 19.1 w.  Since the new Black Chili has consistently tested faster than the old, it is probably safe to say that the new Speedkings are probably in the 17-18 watt range.  Then you can look at his comparison of mtb tires with tubes and tubeless where a Racesport version of the Raceking dropped five watts tubeless.  So the new Speedkings, set up tubeless,  are probably right around 12-14 watts at 25 psi.  Conservatively, I would say no worse than 15 watts.
Now, the Terra Speed in 40mm is 21.2 watts at 36 psi. Because it is a less flexible tire with more sidewall support, it probably will only gain 3-4 watts tubeless, so at 36psi you are looking at 18 watts.  Except that for my roads, 36 is way too high or I get beat up, so I'm probably going to run a Terra Speed at 30 thus that tire is probably going to be running around 20 watts.  
Jarno saying 45psi is a closer comparison is just crazy, whether that is 15 percent or no.  If your roads or gravel are smooth enough to run a 40mm tire at 45 psi then you can easily run the Speedking at 35 and now the Speedking is going to be just as fast as a GP 5000 and much faster than the Terra Speed.  Just looking at it logically, the Speedking should be faster; it weighs nearly the same, has no Protection and has a lower tread profile. 
That doesn't mean it is automatically a better tire; certainly I can say personally, the Speedking is very fragile, but it IS undoubtedly faster unless you use some sort of apples to orange comparison.

ljsmith wrote:

Not really.  Its hard to compare tires from one category to another because the ratings are not using the same percent tire drop.  You have to compare the Medium RR for gravel to the 25psi RR for mountain.  Unfortunately unless you are a Pro member you can't even see the Medium rating.

Speed Kings:

Inner Tube	Conti MTB 29 (225 gr butyl)
Rolling Resistance 55 PSI / 3.8 Bar	14.5 Watts CRR: 0.00435
Rolling Resistance 45 PSI / 3.1 Bar	15.1 Watts CRR: 0.00453
Rolling Resistance 35 PSI / 2.4 Bar	16.6 Watts CRR: 0.00498
Rolling Resistance 25 PSI / 1.7 Bar	19.1 Watts CRR: 0.00573

Terra Speed

Inner Tube	Conti Cross28 (160 gr)
Measured Width	37.6 mm
High Air Pressure (54 psi / 3.7 bar)	18.4 Watts CRR: 0.00552
Medium Air Pressure (45 psi / 3.1 bar)	19.2 Watts CRR: 0.00576
Low Air Pressure (36 psi / 2.6 bar)	21.6 Watts CRR: 0.00647
Extra Low Air Pressure (27 psi / 1.9 bar)	25.6 Watts CRR: 0.00767

If your are rolling resistance weenie, keep in mind that under dynamic conditions, a little too high is far worse than a little bit too low.

ccand51997 wrote:
IF you know his site well enough, he makes it pretty easy to make comparisons based off of your personal riding preferences.  For instance, I've spent plenty of time riding Speedkings at 25 psi off-road so I know that is a good pressure at at that pressure the old Speedkings were at 19.1 w.  Since the new Black Chili has consistently tested faster than the old, it is probably safe to say that the new Speedkings are probably in the 17-18 watt range.  Then you can look at his comparison of mtb tires with tubes and tubeless where a Racesport version of the Raceking dropped five watts tubeless.  So the new Speedkings, set up tubeless,  are probably right around 12-14 watts at 25 psi.  Conservatively, I would say no worse than 15 watts.
Now, the Terra Speed in 40mm is 21.2 watts at 36 psi. Because it is a less flexible tire with more sidewall support, it probably will only gain 3-4 watts tubeless, so at 36psi you are looking at 18 watts.  Except that for my roads, 36 is way too high or I get beat up, so I'm probably going to run a Terra Speed at 30 thus that tire is probably going to be running around 20 watts.  
Jarno saying 45psi is a closer comparison is just crazy, whether that is 15 percent or no.  If your roads or gravel are smooth enough to run a 40mm tire at 45 psi then you can easily run the Speedking at 35 and now the Speedking is going to be just as fast as a GP 5000 and much faster than the Terra Speed.  Just looking at it logically, the Speedking should be faster; it weighs nearly the same, has no Protection and has a lower tread profile. 
That doesn't mean it is automatically a better tire; certainly I can say personally, the Speedking is very fragile, but it IS undoubtedly faster unless you use some sort of apples to orange comparison.

You may be right, you may also be wrong.  Having a science degree, I would say everything you wrote above is anecdotal, hypothetical or projected assumptions and can not be taken seriously.  Unless you have data to back it up, those numbers you throw out are meaningless because you are comparing oranges to hypothetical oranges.   I mean I could make an argument like yours that a Schwalbe G One Speed is faster than a G One Bite, but real world data shows that is false.  Any analysis based on assumptions rather than data is a poor analysis.  Also Racesports are technically not tubeless, Terra Speeds are, so that really kind of kills the whole argument.  But yeah, Speed Kings are fast tires and off-road could be faster than a Terra Speed just based on volume alone.

ljsmith wrote:

You may be right, you may also be wrong.  Having a science degree, I would say everything you wrote above is anecdotal, hypothetical or projected assumptions and can not be taken seriously.  Any analysis based on assumptions rather than data is a poor analysis.  Also Racesports are technically not tubeless, Terra Speeds are, so that really kind of kills the whole argument.  But yeah, Speed Kings are fast tires and off-road could be faster than a Terra Speed just based on volume alone.

Uh, scientists make assumptions all the time.  And then are proven wrong. As long as they have a basis in known facts, they are at least all educated assumptions.  Yeah, it would be nice to test every single tire in every single configuration, but that is not going to happen.  So, sure, I could be wrong, but using the known information I would have no problem recommending tires to people based off the assumptions made.  We are not trying to send a rocket to the moon; this is about fast tires and there is plenty of information here to make very educated guesses.  

Surprisingly I got my Hardpacks today.  Threw them on the scale right away.  Not as bad as I was expecting.

 

ccand51997 wrote:
Uh, scientists make assumptions all the time.  And then are proven wrong. As long as they have a basis in known facts, they are at least all educated assumptions.  Yeah, it would be nice to test every single tire in every single configuration, but that is not going to happen.  So, sure, I could be wrong, but using the known information I would have no problem recommending tires to people based off the assumptions made.  We are not trying to send a rocket to the moon; this is about fast tires and there is plenty of information here to make very educated guesses.  

No we are not trying to send a rocket to the moon.  That is exactly my point, you guys are trying to use these numbers as if they are super accurate and precise and on the same level as rocket science.  Trying to compare these numbers and say one tire is faster than another is silly when they are separated by tenths of a watt in the tests.  The margin of error in these tests is probably plus or minus 5-10% once you factor in the precision and accuracy of the measuring equipment, lack of a large sample size,  and the manufacturing tolerances of the tires.  So to say the Speed King is faster than a Terra Speed and then trying to come up will all these silly made up numbers and calculations to get it there is just ridiculous. When a scientist assumes things, they then have to actually test those assumptions, they realize that just proclaiming them doesn't make them true.  The reality is that probably anything in the 18-22 watt range will all be equally as fast in the real world with no noticeable differences.  

Apples to Apples, both would have 15% tire drop and same type of tube.   

if you can't ride the smaller tire at 15% tire drop because of your terrain, then in your specific scenario you would be faster on the larger tire (if the weight doesn't bother you).   So you are both right.  ;-)  

Zip it nerds l want to hear more about the Hardpacks