Clement x'plor mso versus Panaracer Gravel king sk

24 replies · 1,480 views

Zurichman
1,526 posts
#1Jun 11, 2017, 12:05 AMedited
Being a newbie here I am getting really confused on all the tire talk. I read lots of threads about everybody going tubeless so I tried making my stock Clement x'plor 700 x 40 cm tires that came on my Raleigh Tamland 1 tubeless. The front seemed to work but the back was flat this morning. I or the bike shop had no clue whether this tire was tubeless ready or not but apparently it isn't Should I just leave the front tubeless for now. I never really had to worry too much while riding road. I could ride just about any tire I wanted to and get away with it even though as time progressed I had my favorites and knew tires I didn't like. I also didn't get many flats.

I guess my first real gravel test will be the Pony Express 120 on Sept 9th. I have about 3 months of training to get ready for it. I am not sure if I should just ride my stock Clement tires until they wear out or should I try some different tubeless tires to get ready for this ride. I read some ride reports that on the DK 200 this years that people had trouble with flats. Something about the flint. I have no idea if the Pony Express ride will have any different riding conditions or not. I would like to be riding the best tire for the conditions there though so flats possibly could be out of the equation.

Any thoughts/suggestions/or help would be gladly appreciated.

Thanks
Zman
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RoverAl
489 posts
#2Jun 11, 2017, 5:29 AM
zman wrote:I or the bike shop had no clue whether this tire was tubeless ready or not but apparently it isn't

The Clement 40C MSO tires are not tubeless ready designed tires and your LBS should know this unequivocally.

You can make a non tubeless tire run tubeless as evidenced by your front tire holding air. See Stans no tubes for more information

Your rear tire losing air overnight happens to a bunch of people too. You have to take time and understand how to seal it so it is rideable. Search on here for guidance.
(Stans Shake ETC...)

Going tubeless has a learning curve and you need to take a hands on approach to getting it done or you will be spending lots of time at your lbs.

Pump up the tire and ride it around a little to see if it holds air and can be trusted if not grab a pair of the panaracer gravel kings and move on or use tubes. Monitor your tubeless setup to gauge any air loss over a set period of time to determine if they are reliable or not. Some tires hold air better than others but there are lots of variables.

Put copious miles on whatever set up you intend to use for your event beforehand to learn your set up and practice changing flats. With tubeless if you flat you install a tube
and you will need to remove the tubeless stem to fit the tube in. Practice practice practice.

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GHC
169 posts
#3Jun 11, 2017, 8:27 AM
Here is my 2 cents. I waited entirely too long to go tubeless.... you are almost there, stick with it. \n \nThis spring my bike came with 36 MSO's and I was confused if they were tubeless...so I inquired on this site and also emailed clement..... both assured me that all of their tubeless tire have "tubeless" stamped on them (in white box). \nNo stamp....not tubeless ready. \n \nBest source I found for tubeless 36 MSO's is arts cyclery http://www.artscyclery.com/Clement_XPlor_MSO_Tubeless_Tire_700x36/descpage-CLXMSOTR36.html \n \nOr amazon if arts is out of them. \n \nI really like my MSO 36's. \n \nIf I read your post right, your LBS did the tape and air stem work for you...... so you already have that investment...but at this point you are not sure if the issue was your tire or their tape/stem work. So I would get the right tire and take it back to them.....that way they can double check their work for ya and maybe cut ya some slack on the re try. \n \nLast piece of 2 cents.......once ya get rolling tubeless....buy a sealant syring and sealant and do the work your self if you are up for it.... it is really pretty easy and well worth your time to learn IMO..... that way you can top off or change tires whenever ya want to with ease. \n \nOne mans opinion....hope this helps. \n \n(Long story short... i am trying to talk you in to sticking with it and getting on tubeless to feel the difference ....imo once you do, these initial speed bumps and and a couple extra bucks will be distant memories.....hope this helps = my intention)
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#4Jun 11, 2017, 9:47 AM
RoverAl and GHC thanks so much for the info. I guess if I lived in Kansas or the Midwest my LBS would have known that the 40C MSO tires were non tubeless. The gravel riding/racing craze hasn't hit here yet and only some mt. biking craze is known. We live close enough to WV to know or have a few riders ride the Hilly Billy down there and if I read it ride over Gravel Cyclist they list their top 10 or 20 races to do and Michaux State Forest Iron Cross race is right out my back door. It has some techinical single track to it so it will be awhile until I try that. Thanks for the Stans shake info Roveral as I search that here and am trying that out right now. GHC where can you buy a sealant syring? Crazy as it sounds my rims were already tubeless set up as they were sealed except for the tire stem hole so my LBS didn't need to do any tape. I might be new to gravel riding but not new to googling to save a nickle/dime/buckaroo so yeah you are right GHC in that last night when I checked that out that Art's Cyclery had the cheapest prices on the Clement tires. Amazon was close but it looks like they made their sales on a person to person basis as from what I looked at the delivery time on the tires was a month way too long.

Thanks to both of you for the info.
Zman
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#5Jun 11, 2017, 10:13 AM
So I pumped the rear tire up to around 80 lbs. psi. With my Joe Blow I couldn't get to 90 lbs. psi their max. I just went out and did a quick soap test and it had 6 leaks on the one side. Geesh Louise this isn't gonna work. Art's Cyclery is now going to get some business from me.

Zman
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GHC
169 posts
#6Jun 11, 2017, 10:24 AMedited
The syringe is not a "must have" ... but it is one heck of a "nice to have" in that you don't have to break the bead to add sealant.    ...   So that benefit alone is good enough for me.

Google.   Stans no tubes sealant syringe.   There are other brands of sealant syringe's too ... just so they have a syringe and a tube (Art's and Amazon typically have em too)

https://www.amazon.com/Stans-2-Ounce-Sealant-Injector-Connector/dp/B002WY12PO

I have been using orange seal for sealant, stan's obviously has a big following too.

(My process for tubeless once rims are ready is ... mount tire, spray outside of tire till dripping at the bead with dish soap/water mix for lube, and then pump it up with air only (might need a compressor, might not) to seat tires on rims... to max air pressure stamped on tire (don't go crazy here, max is enough)...... then I let it set a bit to seat good with the high air pressure (and probably stretch a touch, idk) .... then I keep the weight off the tire and remove inner valve core (they make a tool for this) and add sealant...replace valve core ... and air it up.    If gentle enough with my rims/tires/keeping weight off tire while stem is out and to add sealant...the tires stay seated.   Then I do the stans shake....and then I go ride them on rough stuff right away for 1/2 hour minimum to work sealant around real good (ride at your own risk).   Probably more steps then I might need ....but works for me.    hope this helps)

Lastly ... once you get them to where you know you are gtg.... experiment with lowering air pressure. Running lower air pressure tubeless are what finally opened my eyes to tubeless benefits... and ... flat protection.

Have a ball and good luck.
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#7Jun 11, 2017, 11:01 AM
I probably shouldn't post this as it might bring e bad luck. On the road end people also have different ideas of how/what to run their tires. On the road side I probably run my tires higher than most 120 or 125 lbs. on the rear and 105 - 110 in the front. When I run below the 120 my tire feels weak/soft. I hate to say this but I probably have tubes in my cycling closet that are dry rotting.

I did get a reply back from the guy that runs the Pony Express. He ran one of the Clement tires at DK I think a 36cm and ran tubes pumped up to 65 lbs. psi front and 70 lbs. psi rear. He said they have goat head thorns on some of the grassy crossover spots at the Pony Express ride. For sure we don't have that here in Pa. Does it matter whether you are running tubeless or tubed in Goat head thorns?
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GHC
169 posts
#8Jun 11, 2017, 11:18 AM
Zurichman.... at the risk pissing off your LBS (don't do that)... I also wanted to mention this.....only because your LBS couldn't tell you if your tires were tubeless ready or not...they should have been able to help you with that question imo...so that what has this in the back of my mind in regards to your LBS.    I am very confident/hopeful this is not an issue ... but it's on my mind.

There are "tubeless ready" rims that don't come taped for sealant...plenty of em imo   Mine were (DT SWISS tubeless ready rims).   Meaning ... they were ready to be converted to tubeless, but weren't taped with sealant ready tape....they had a standard "rim strip" stock (to protect an inner tube). I had to remove this plastic strip and clean the rim, then taped it.

If you are confident your rims were pre taped for you (some are) and/or you are confident the LBS knows the diff between a rim strip and sealant ready tape (IE...they convert a lot of tubeless ready rims) .... and again, they absolutely should ... then ignore my post.   Again, very unlikely this is an issue if the LBS did them for you.

Man... I hesitated to hit the send button...but it was on my mind.

What rims are you running?

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GHC
169 posts
#9Jun 11, 2017, 11:37 AMedited
Not recommended activity (he must of had them full of sealant lol) ... but to your goat head/tubeless question....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTlZvOVG8zs
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#10Jun 11, 2017, 11:51 AMedited
GHC wrote:Zurichman.... at the risk pissing off your LBS (don't do that)... I also wanted to mention this.....only because your LBS couldn't tell you if your tires were tubeless ready or not...they should have been able to help you with that question imo...so that what has this in the back of my mind in regards to your LBS.    I am very confident/hopeful this is not an issue ... but it's on my mind.

There are "tubeless ready" rims that don't come taped for sealant...plenty of em imo   Mine were (DT SWISS tubeless ready rims).   Meaning ... they were ready to be converted to tubeless, but weren't taped with sealant ready tape....they had a standard "rim strip" stock (to protect an inner tube). I had to remove this plastic strip and clean the rim, then taped it.

If you are confident your rims were pre taped for you (some are) and/or you are confident the LBS knows the diff between a rim strip and sealant ready tape (IE...they convert a lot of tubeless ready rims) .... and again, they absolutely should ... then ignore my post.   Again, very unlikely this is an issue if the LBS did them for you.

Man... I hesitated to hit the send button...but it was on my mind.

What rims are you running?

Well sometimes you have to learn the hard way. I called 2 different LBS'S to get some pricing done on the tubeless tire set up. One was $40 and the other was $80 so I took a chance on the $40 guy and just lost $40. The rims I am running are the stock Tamland. Weinman Impulse TL double Wall 32h. It is hard to find a good LBS here in my area. This guy is cheap on the accessories but probably not so good on setting up tubeless. Most of his clients are Amish/Mennonites that run or ride bent/regular bikes but run them with a tube. I watched him do this work and yes my rim has marked on the outside that it is tubeless ready. It had the plastic strips on like you said and I guess the cheapo LBS didn't know to put the rim strips on. The guy that was going to charge me $80 did and knew the strips had to go on the rim. I guess I just have to chalk it up as a learning experience at my end.

Thanks
Zman
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#11Jun 11, 2017, 12:16 PM
GHC wrote:Not recommended activity (he must of had them full of sealant lol) ... but to your goat head/tubeless question....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTlZvOVG8zs[/QUOTE]

Wow I see lots of people like the orange sealant over Stans so looks like I need to do some googling. My LBS used the WTB TCS sealant.

Zman
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RoverAl
489 posts
#12Jun 11, 2017, 12:56 PMedited
Hey Zman , I think I have those same rims. I used them tubeless the way they came for awhile. They had a sort of yellowish filmy thin tape over the spoke holes. If they have a one piece plastic sort of strip over them that can be moved side to side then those are not suitable for tubeless and would never hold air from the get go and you wouldn't get any air retention.
The properly taped ones do not move side to side and are stuck on like adhesive tape because that's what it is..

Being your front is good I think your ok. I don't know about prices because I do most all bike work myself but $40 for two valve stems and an hour or so work might be in line.

Sometimes it takes overnight to set up a tire laying it on its side other times not.
Running pressure tubeless is a lot lower than with a tube, usually 40-50 psi
Orange seal comes with a neat little hose to fit over your valve stem to put more sealant in.

If I was in the market for gravel tires, I would get the Gravel Kings.

1
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#13Jun 11, 2017, 1:25 PM
[QUOTE=RoverAl]Hey Zman , I think I have those same rims. I used them tubeless the way they came for awhile. They had a sort of yellowish filmy thin tape over the spoke holes. If they have a one piece plastic sort of strip over them that can be moved side to side then those are not suitable for tubeless and would never hold air from the get go and you wouldn't get any air retention.
The properly taped ones do not move side to side and are stuck on like adhesive tape because that's what it is..

Being your front is good I think your ok. I don't know about prices because I do most all bike work myself but $40 for two valve stems and an hour or so work might be in line.

Sometimes it takes overnight to set up a tire laying it on its side other times not.
Running pressure tubeless is a lot lower than with a tube, usually 40-50 psi
Orange seal comes with a neat little hose to fit over your valve stem to put more sealant in.

If I was in the market for gravel tires, I would get the Gravel Kings.

Thanks from what I am seeing the tape plastic over the rim isn't the problem I have major leaks because the tire isn't sealing. It is now holding around 20 lbs. psi so it is getting better but not there yet. I might do the 24 hr. thingy and if that doesn't work gravel kings or 36cm Clement mso's it is.

Zman
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#14Jun 11, 2017, 1:42 PM
RoverAl wrote:Hey Zman , I think I have those same rims. I used them tubeless the way they came for awhile. They had a sort of yellowish filmy thin tape over the spoke holes. If they have a one piece plastic sort of strip over them that can be moved side to side then those are not suitable for tubeless and would never hold air from the get go and you wouldn't get any air retention.
The properly taped ones do not move side to side and are stuck on like adhesive tape because that's what it is..

Being your front is good I think your ok. I don't know about prices because I do most all bike work myself but $40 for two valve stems and an hour or so work might be in line.

Sometimes it takes overnight to set up a tire laying it on its side other times not.
Running pressure tubeless is a lot lower than with a tube, usually 40-50 psi
Orange seal comes with a neat little hose to fit over your valve stem to put more sealant in.

If I was in the market for gravel tires, I would get the Gravel Kings.

BTW since I was there it only took the wrench 15-20 minutes to do this.

Zman
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#15Jun 11, 2017, 7:30 PM
Looks like the Stans shake deal worked as my tire now seems sealed up. A final ride on gravel in the morning should seal it's fate.

Many Thanks
Zman
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owly
328 posts
#16Jun 11, 2017, 10:37 PM
Dumb question, but after setting up tubeless with sealant, if I open the valve to attach a pump (when playing around with tire pressure) won't the sealant spray out of the valve hindering pumping?
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#17Jun 11, 2017, 10:46 PM
owly wrote:Dumb question, but after setting up tubeless with sealant, if I open the valve to attach a pump (when playing around with tire pressure) won't the sealant spray out of the valve hindering pumping?

I don't think so but if it does very little. It sticks around the rim would be my guess. You do know that you have to reapply 2 oz. every 3-4 months right.

Zman
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RoverAl
489 posts
#18Jun 12, 2017, 6:18 AM
owly wrote: Dumb question, but after setting up tubeless with sealant, if I open the valve to attach a pump (when playing around with tire pressure) won't the sealant spray out of the valve hindering pumping?

Place the valve in the 12 o clock position so the sealant is on the bottom of the rim and much less likely to spray out of stem under pressure.
Over time there is some accumulation in the stem but not enough to cause problems in my experience.

Remove valve stem before refilling sealant.
Purchase a valve stem removal tool worth every penny.
Shop around this one came up first, I am not affiliated with seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stans-No-Tubes-Presta-Schrader-Valve-Core-Remover-New-/112161658723?hash=item1a1d5b1763:g:YksAAOSwYmZXMLiD
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#19Jun 12, 2017, 8:28 AM
GHC wrote:The syringe is not a "must have" ... but it is one heck of a "nice to have" in that you don't have to break the bead to add sealant.    ...   So that benefit alone is good enough for me.

Google.   Stans no tubes sealant syringe.   There are other brands of sealant syringe's too ... just so they have a syringe and a tube (Art's and Amazon typically have em too)

https://www.amazon.com/Stans-2-Ounce-Sealant-Injector-Connector/dp/B002WY12PO

I have been using orange seal for sealant, stan's obviously has a big following too.

(My process for tubeless once rims are ready is ... mount tire, spray outside of tire till dripping at the bead with dish soap/water mix for lube, and then pump it up with air only (might need a compressor, might not) to seat tires on rims... to max air pressure stamped on tire (don't go crazy here, max is enough)...... then I let it set a bit to seat good with the high air pressure (and probably stretch a touch, idk) .... then I keep the weight off the tire and remove inner valve core (they make a tool for this) and add sealant...replace valve core ... and air it up.    If gentle enough with my rims/tires/keeping weight off tire while stem is out and to add sealant...the tires stay seated.   Then I do the stans shake....and then I go ride them on rough stuff right away for 1/2 hour minimum to work sealant around real good (ride at your own risk).   Probably more steps then I might need ....but works for me.    hope this helps)

Lastly ... once you get them to where you know you are gtg.... experiment with lowering air pressure. Running lower air pressure tubeless are what finally opened my eyes to tubeless benefits... and ... flat protection.

Have a ball and good luck.

GHC I can't seem to get the rear tire sealed up. What pressure lbs. psi should I ride the tire at to try and finally get it sealed up. I have a gravel road about 1 mile from the house so no problem if it goes flat.

Thanks
Zman
0
GHC
169 posts
#20Jun 12, 2017, 9:12 AM
Zman ... bummer.

Considering that I know you have shaken it good ... at this point ... I would consider adding another oz of sealant and trying another shake/sit process first to see if you can get it to seal, before riding.   If that doesn't do it, I personally would punt and get a tubeless ready tire and double check the stem/tape when you mount the new tire.

But to answer your question....what I do on the first ride shortly after adding sealant...is run it about 10 lbs under stamped tubed max air pressure....then after a couple rides, I take it down to the pressure my conditions warrant.   But, my caveat is that the tires I am riding on my rims pretty much hold air without sealant, so when I ride them the first time I am actually trying to work in any spots that need sealant...but I already know they hold good.    My concern for you as you already know it isn't sealed very well, is that you may get a big burp or a quick failure......so that is why, if it were me in your situation ... I would try more sealant or bite the bullet and get a tubeless ready tire (tubeless ready tire is what I would do.



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