Salsa Vaya 1x11 conversion

I have a 2018 Salsa Vaya Tiagra, and I'm planning to convert it to 1x11 gearing over the winter or next year.

Here's a parts spec I've come up with based on what I can afford. Does anyone see any incompatibility? Alternatively, if anyone has any suggestions re: downgrading a certain part to upgrade another (trying to keep costs reasonable, can't just upgrade it all) please chime in.

Shimano Ultegra ST-R8000 Shifters (11spd) - approx $250 as a set
Shimano GRX FC-RX600-1 11-speed Crankset - approx $150
Shimano BB-RS500 threaded bottom bracket - approx $17
Shimano CS-M7000-11 cassette (11-42) - approx $53
Shimano GRX RD-RX812 Rear Derailleur - 11-Speed - approx $115

So total cost at this point is ~$600. SRAM might be cheaper, and I have used a SRAM Apex 1x10 on a Salsa Fargo before, but I really prefer Shimano's shifters. Likely because I'm clumsy, but I had too many wrong shifts from bumps during shifting with SRAM. Still, I've priced out a similar setup:

SRAM Apex 1 11-speed Shifters - approx $150 as a set
SRAM Apex 1 BB30 Crankset - approx $115
SRAM DUB English Threaded Bottom Bracket - approx $38
SUNRACE CSMX8 11 Speed Cassette - approx $69
SRAM APEX 1 Rear Derailleur - approx $70

which comes down to a slightly more affordable ~$450.

Another question here is can I continue to use my current wheelset that has a SRAM X9 hub? My understanding is that large mtb cassettes such as this should fit on 8/9/10 speed hubs, but if anyone has any experience with this hub and 11-speed cassettes please chime in.

I currently have AVID BB7 Road disk brakes, and plan to keep them for the time being, and might upgrade to TRP's in the future. I'm thinking mechanical brakes as opposed to hydraulic still, as I would like to be able to easily maintain it myself. I have a 27.5+ hardtail with hydraulic brakes, and I appreciate them, but I'm not going to be very loaded, and have found the current brakes to be adequate for me (though I do have some judder on the front with the current QR steel fork when I brake hard).

That's a really big investment and a lot of labor. What are your thoughts on doing a 1x10 with your current setup? I had a Sunrace 11-42 10 speed on a previous bike and it shifted great. I think that's what is on my fat bike too. The Wolf Tooth derailleur extender is compatible with your current rear derailleur and will definitely clear an 11-40 and they clear an 11-42 on a lot of bikes, but it's sort of an unknown unless we can find somebody else that has tried it. A 1x ring for your current crank and 1x specific chainring bolts. That's really it.

Either way, there's no reason to get a new crankset unless you really want one. A Shimano 11 speed 11-34, 11-40, 11-42, and 11-46 cassette fit the 10 speed spacing of your current wheels.

You could just get a 1x chainring and if you need a wider range cassette get a roadlink.

I ran a 40t 11-34 for years. Its still easier than a single speed.

There's an error in your SRAM buildup, you have a BB30 crank with a DUB BB. That won't work. If you want to stick with BB30 crank, get the Raceface Threaded 30mm BB to match. Need to use spacers to close the gap without drag, or a wavy washer(which I'm not a fan of).

Aside: I have a Sram Red GXP crank with 44T Race Face NWT I'll sell you for $75. It's used, has rock chips on the crank arms, but is solid. You'll need the GXP BB.

Lastly, yes, a shimano 11spd MTB cassette will fit a 10spd hub as the tall gear is offset inwards. I have two bikes running the 11-34. You can go 40/42/44 if you need more range.

Thanks a lot for the ideas & feedback - I'm still wavering on how to go about this. After reading the comments, I am considering going 1x10 using my existing brifters, and changing the crank & rear derailleur & cassette to save some $$.

My main concern with that is there doesn't seem to be a Shimano clutch derailleur for 36+ teeth cassettes. I really liked the combination of a narrow-wide chainring with a clutch mtb derailleur on my SRAM Fargo, I had no dropped chains whatsoever! I've taken my Vaya out to an easy cyclocross course around here, and I ended up dropping the chain a couple of times over the rough sections. I'd like this bike to do double duty as gravel & amateur cyclocross bike (actually triple duty if you include daily commuting). Does anybody know if the Wolf Tooth derailleur extender work with the Shimano GRX RD-RX400 derailleur? Then I could do a 42t front / 11-40 rear, which I feel would work well for me.

I don't know the answer to your question. It's a question for Wolf Tooth.

On a 1x setup with a good 1x chainring, new chain properly sized (no excess) and a new cassette, the possibility of chain drop should be extremely low. I have raced competitive cyclocross for several years and the single chain drop was in such epic mud that the chain was lifted up off the chainring. I put it back on after wiping away mud and the rear derailleur was ripped off half a lap later. Crazy conditions.

If you were on the Vaya in the smaller chainring tooling around, the combination of not having a 1x chainring and probably having a little extra chainring (than you would if you only had a 32 up front) is a sure recipe for a chain drop. My very first season I raced with a 46/36 crank and lost the chain several times sitting on that 36 (and almost never shifting out of it).

There's also a fairly unknown setting in Shimano rear derailleurs. They have two different tension settings. They ship in the 'low' tension setting. You can increase the tension with 5 minutes of your time and basic tools. I made a video a year or two explaining it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97P7G94rE7M

kamyon wrote:Does anybody know if the Wolf Tooth derailleur extender work with the Shimano GRX RD-RX400 derailleur? Then I could do a 42t front / 11-40 rear, which I feel would work well for me.

The RX400 is rated for up to 36T largest cog.  It wouldn't surprise me if you could run it on 40T cassette without an extender.

As to your original question: in the Shimano selection, you could opt for 11-speed 105 shifters instead of Ultegra.  And you could take the cheaper SRAM crankset over the Shimano GRX crankset.

kamyon wrote:I am considering going 1x10 using my existing brifters, and changing the crank & rear derailleur & cassette to save some $$.

As suggested by Volsung, you could just replace the chainring and save money by reusing your bottom bracket and crank.  Your FSA crankset seems to have a rather standard 110mm BCD and 5 bolt pattern.

Tiagra 4700 shifters use the 11 speed pull ratio so you should be able to use the 11 speed GRX RD-812 1x optimized derailleur with your current shifters.

The main reason to consider going 11 speed is that the 11-42 10 speed cassette has 15-18-21 jumps while the 11 speed goes 15-17-19-21.The smaller jumps are nicer if your riding is flatter, especially if you ride with other people in pacelines.

It's an easy upgrade path - just get a narrow-wide ring for your cranks, the 812 RD and a new cassette and try it out. If the 15-18 jump is too annoying then upgrade your shifters and cassette/chain. 

@dangle Thanks for the advice & the video - at this point, I will keep my crank & get a new narrow-wide chainring for it, get a 11-40T 10-speed cassette, ditch the front mech and keep my existing Tiagra 4700 brifters, at least for the time being.

I asked WolfTooth re: the extenders, and they kindly responded quickly - they think that I could also use the RoadLink with my existing derailleur up to 40T. They have not tested the Shimano RD-RX400 yet, but they think the GoatLink might work with it up to 42T. 

I think I'm going to try the Roadlink with my derailleur first, and see if I have any issues, either with clearance or dropping the chain. If it doesn't work, I'll try @drwelby 's suggestion of getting the GRX RD-812 1x11 derailleur to use with my Tiagra 4700 brifters. In the future, I can then upgrade my brifters & cassette to 11 speed. I'll update the post to let everyone know how it goes. Thanks for all the ideas & suggestions! 

I can't remember if it's Tiagra 4600 or 4700 that has a different pull than all the other 10s Shimano things (ie shifters not compatible with ultegra derailleurs).  If you upgrade you'll want to upgrade both at the same time.

4600 has the "old" 10 speed pull. In the upgrade to 4700 they moved the shifter cables under the bar tape, and switched to the "new" 11 speed pull even though the shifter only has 10 clicks (the longer pull is more tolerant of all the extra cable housing and bends). 4700 and the hydro rs405 10 speed shifters work perfectly with 11 speed rear derailleurs - I'm using the 405s with R7000 front and rear derailleurs and they work perfectly.

drwelby wrote:4600 has the "old" 10 speed pull. In the upgrade to 4700 they moved the shifter cables under the bar tape, and switched to the "new" 11 speed pull even though the shifter only has 10 clicks (the longer pull is more tolerant of all the extra cable housing and bends). 4700 and the hydro rs405 10 speed shifters work perfectly with 11 speed rear derailleurs - I'm using the 405s with R7000 front and rear derailleurs and they work perfectly.

I've always assumed this would work in theory but never had anyone actually say they tried it with success.  One question, does the fatter 10sp chain have any ill effect with the "narrower" 11sp RD?

kamyon wrote:Thanks a lot for the ideas & feedback - I'm still wavering on how to go about this. After reading the comments, I am considering going 1x10 using my existing brifters, and changing the crank & rear derailleur & cassette to save some $$.

My main concern with that is there doesn't seem to be a Shimano clutch derailleur for 36+ teeth cassettes. I really liked the combination of a narrow-wide chainring with a clutch mtb derailleur on my SRAM Fargo, I had no dropped chains whatsoever! I've taken my Vaya out to an easy cyclocross course around here, and I ended up dropping the chain a couple of times over the rough sections. I'd like this bike to do double duty as gravel & amateur cyclocross bike (actually triple duty if you include daily commuting). Does anybody know if the Wolf Tooth derailleur extender work with the Shimano GRX RD-RX400 derailleur? Then I could do a 42t front / 11-40 rear, which I feel would work well for me.

I have used an Ultegra RX800-GS with a 11-40 with no problems (50/34 on the front). 

Ok, so I've done it. I got a 42T chainring for the front, and some slightly longer bolts with spacers to bring the chainline ~2mm more inwards (the FSA cranks have two locations for 2x gearing, I'm using the outer 110mm location). Removed the front derailleur and shifter cable. Got a Sunrace 11-42 10 speed cassette and the Shimano GRX RD812 derailleur for the rear. Took me a long time to adjust the gearing, but works pretty well right now. Sometimes shifting down one from the largest cog is not very smooth, but that might partly because my standard length chain barely wrapped around two 42T cogs (front & rear) on my 59.5cm Vaya, I only had a two link overlap instead of for as recommended for single ring setups. If you're using a bigger bike like me, you may want to get a longer chain. 

I haven't ridden it anywhere rough yet, but so far for commuting it all seems to work well. I may try it with a 11-36 cassette for cyclocross, or use a 40T front chainring for more hilly rides. Thanks for the advice here!