I need your experienced advice, on the best set up, for "Me"!

111 replies · 1,608 views

Old Guy
26 posts
#21Apr 22, 2017, 10:33 PM
drwelby wrote:There's a big list in this thread.

If you want modern looking options your best bets are:

Rotor 3D+, 3D30 and FLOW with 30/46 No-Q spider ring
Sugino OX601D or OX901D
FSA Adventure Tempo SL-K

Thats Great...we are getting a lot closer.
What I am needing to know is......"WHERE"?....can I buy the FSA 46x30 Crank from???
It seems pretty clear that companies are making these cranks....but....so far...I have not found any Suppliers or Sellers of these Cranks?
Does any one know.....exactly where I can get them from and "WHO" is actually selling them?
I'm wanting to buy one.
Thanks

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Old Guy
26 posts
#22Apr 23, 2017, 8:06 PM
Thanks again for the info.
The crank set that I am going with is the FSA 46x30 11 speed.
The Tempo Adventure that you suggested is only for a 9 speed.
This is the one, that should do the trick.
http://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/discipline/road/sl-k-modular-bb386evo-crankset-3703
It will be nice to be able to go with a much smaller cassette, and still have the ability to climb.
Thanks to everyone, for all of your help.
Old Guy
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dangle
465 posts
#23Apr 24, 2017, 11:53 AM
Old Guy wrote:The crank set that I am going with is the FSA 46x30 11 speed.
This is the one, that should do the trick.
http://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/discipline/road/sl-k-modular-bb386evo-crankset-3703
Old Guy

Which Trek do you have? Specifically, which bottom bracket? Trek likes to use bottom brackets that are wider than the crank you are looking at.
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Old Guy
26 posts
#24Apr 24, 2017, 6:28 PM
dangle wrote:

Which Trek do you have? Specifically, which bottom bracket? Trek likes to use bottom brackets that are wider than the crank you are looking at.

Good question.
I have a Trek Emonda and the BB is a BB90.
You are right, it is wide, but it appears that the FSA Crank comes with various adapters, to make the mating process possible.
So they say.
From what I read about the Crank, it seemed as if it would fit.
Thanks for the heads up, I will have to research that, a little closer.
Thanks again.

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PoolBoyMatt
49 posts
#25Apr 24, 2017, 9:19 PM
Hey Old Guy,
Do you have a Trek Emonda ALR or a Trek Emonda S/SL/SLR?

If you have carbon will have a braze on front derailleur. Trek did not design this to be compatible with REALLY low gearing, meaning you will have a real problem lowering the front der enough to shift those smaller rings properly.

I work at a big Trek shop in Denver and we run into this semi-regularly. My buddy is a low-gear aficionado and works with me. His Sugino crank ticks off so many boxes for our customers but you can't make the der low enough to jive with a 46.
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NoCoGreg
512 posts
#26Apr 25, 2017, 12:34 AM
Here's a link with lots of info on drivetrain options.
http://www.cyclingabout.com/wider-gear-range-road-shifters-gears-for-easier-hill-climbing/

Before you read it I just want to echo many of the concerns others brought up:
- Compatibility:
- Frame may not be able to shift one of the 46/30 or 46/28 cranksets
- Rear derailleur maximum chain wrap
- Rear derailleur maximum number of teeth
- Front derailleur maximum difference between rings
- Front derailleur shape is tuned for max/min recommended chainring radius
- Front derailleur reach (mountain, road-triple, road double)
- Cable pull compatibility between shifters and derailleurs
- It's all about tradeoffs: Number of gears, Max, Min, Spacing (size of jumps)

From what I read, it sounds like you would be best served with a 3x10 or 3x11 setup - but I know of Campagnolo having a 3x11 (Athena group). His however is limited in that the rear derailleur is rated for a maximum 29t cog and the smallest chainring is 30t - so almost a 1:1 ration. One can get lower gears with a SRAM setup using a 48/34 crankset and an 11/36 mountain cassette.

IMHO the simplest solution is to find an 11 speed setup which will work on your bike. If the frame requires a 48 or 50t large chainring then perhaps you could compensate by going with an 12-36 cassette instead of 11-36? There's a 9% jump between the 11 and 12 - that's about the same as a 33t to 36t jump.

One last comment - smaller jumps tend to shift better. Thus a 46/34 crankset "should" shift faster than a 50/34.

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dangle
465 posts
#27Apr 25, 2017, 1:54 PM
Old Guy wrote:I have a Trek Emonda and the BB is a BB90.
You are right, it is wide, but it appears that the FSA Crank comes with various adapters, to make the mating process possible.
So they say.
From what I read about the Crank, it seemed as if it would fit.

Respectfully as possible, no adapter is going to make your frame/bottom bracket 4mm narrower or the FSA crank spindle 4mm wider. That FSA crank will not work on your bike.

The last thing I can think of is the Shimano Metrea series 2x crank. They have a 46/32 crank that has a spindle wide enough for your frame. You will need a different bottom bracket though as your SRAM GXP bottom bracket has a different size bearing on one side.

PoolBoyMatt also brings up a good point with how low the FD can go on that Emonda. The radius (the only thing that matters to the FD) on a 30 ring is 8mm smaller than a 34 which might be too low for the FD to reach adequately. A 32 is only 4mm smaller than what we know is working and should work. I think a 46/32 front crank and 11/32 rear will still give you one really low climbing gear and without the gaps/jumps of your 11-40 cassette. An 11-36 cassette (SRAM) would also work with the max capacity of chain management for your RD. Somebody suggested a 12-36 cassette but I have never seen one in 11 speed.

The BB90 is an odd duck, so it's really unlikely they are other good crank options to get down to a 30 or 32 inner ring.

The most inexpensive (free?) solution is going to a 46 large ring, keeping your 34 small ring and doing an 11-36 cassette in the back will bring you back into the recommended specs of the RD (no excess chain bouncing around or dropping) and give you a low gear that allows you to spin at 60rpm at walking speed (no exaggeration, 4.5 mph at 60rpm in the 36f/34r). I just can't imagine needing any lower gear and being able to pedal without falling over sideways. The 46f x 11r is faster/bigger than a 50f x 12r too. I bet somebody would trade you straight up an 11-36 cassette for your 11-40, or you could just sell the 11-40 and Roadlink (you don't need it on that RD with the 11-36 cassette) and use the cash to buy the 11-36. If the chain is fairly new, you can re-use it after taking a couple links outs.
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Slim
300 posts
#28Apr 25, 2017, 2:46 PM
Re 12-36 casette. \nMake your own by taking an 11-36 casette and swapping the 11t for a a 12t of another casette.
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Slim
300 posts
#29Apr 25, 2017, 3:00 PM
dangle wrote:
...and give you a low gear that allows you to spin at 60rpm at walking speed (no exaggeration, 4.5 mph at 60rpm in the 36f/34r). I just can't imagine needing any lower gear and being able to pedal without falling over sideways.

Well... mountain bikes seem to manage to stay upright with a 22f/36r....

I assume you didn't make a mistake in the math, but I can tell you that I need a much lower gear than the more than 1:1 you list up there. If you look at the drivetrains listed in this forum , you will see that many people like less than 1:1 for their gravel bikes.

It might be that your cadence of 60 rims is lower than what people like to use. When the hill is long, and you are tired, a cadence around 75rpm is a lot nicer, and most importantly, prevents you from stalling out on a short steeper section.
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Slim
300 posts
#30Apr 25, 2017, 3:05 PM
NoCoGreg wrote:
One last comment - smaller jumps tend to shift better. Thus a 46/34 crankset "should" shift faster than a 50/34.

Except that as far as I know, most of the major cranksets are made as 50/34, 48/34 or 46/36 (CX), so if you mix and match a 46t big ring with the 34t of a compact, the shifting will suffer a bit, because the ramps don't line up perfectly. I know it works, (my wife has it) but I would not go so far as to say that it shifts better than 48/34.
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NoCoGreg
512 posts
#31Apr 25, 2017, 3:53 PM
Slim wrote:

Except that as far as I know, most of the major cranksets are made as 50/34, 48/34 or 46/36 (CX), so if you mix and match a 46t big ring with the 34t of a compact, the shifting will suffer a bit, because the ramps don't line up perfectly. I know it works, (my wife has it) but I would not go so far as to say that it shifts better than 48/34.

Yes 50/34 and 46/36 are two of the "standards".... But lots of folks on the CX and other forums have modified a 46/36 CX crankset by replacing the 36 with a 34 and claim it works great. The reason for swapping the small chainring is simply economics, the large chainrings with the ramp pins are significantly more expensive.

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dangle
465 posts
#32Apr 25, 2017, 4:19 PM
Slim wrote:Re 12-36 casette. Make your own by taking an 11-36 casette and swapping the 11t for a a 12t of another casette.

Because it will require two cassettes. The lock rings are different and so are the cassette teeth up through at least a 17. If you look at the Shimano catalog, the cogs 17 and under are different between a 12-15 and 11-28 cassette. The shifting will likely degrade unless you're using about half of the 12-xx cassette with the 11-36 cassette.
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dangle
465 posts
#33Apr 25, 2017, 4:23 PM
Slim wrote:

Well... mountain bikes seem to manage to stay upright with a 22f/36r....

I assume you didn't make a mistake in the math, but I can tell you that I need a much lower gear than the more than 1:1 you list up there. If you look at the drivetrains listed in this forum , you will see that many people like less than 1:1 for their gravel bikes.

It might be that your cadence of 60 rims is lower than what people like to use. When the hill is long, and you are tired, a cadence around 75rpm is a lot nicer, and most importantly, prevents you from stalling out on a short steeper section.

We're talking about a 15lb road bike with road tires. Lower than 1:1 is walking territory.
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dangle
465 posts
#34Apr 25, 2017, 4:27 PM
NoCoGreg wrote:
Yes 50/34 and 46/36 are two of the "standards".... But lots of folks on the CX and other forums have modified a 46/36 CX crankset by replacing the 36 with a 34 and claim it works great. The reason for swapping the small chainring is simply economics, the large chainrings with the ramp pins are significantly more expensive.

NoCoGreg is right. The orientation of the ramps does not change going from a 36 to a 34. It should shift just as well. I wouldn't say the same ring in a 34 vs. a 36 (paired to a 46) will shift better, but it won't shift worse. Swapping to a 46/34 makes a very noticeable difference while not requiring any other changes in the drivetrain. It's hard to find a better way to spend $20 on a cross/gravel bike.
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drwelby
531 posts
#35Apr 25, 2017, 8:33 PM
For the front derailleur mount problem Wickwerks make an adaptor to drop the derailleur down: Fitlink Adaptor. No idea if it will work with this specific setup - it's supposed make a 41 tooth big ring work so it might be too low!

Miche makes 11 speed individual cogs in all sorts of sizes to reconfigure cassettes. No need to buy a whole new one just for one cog.

I was also thinking instead of changing any of the chainrings, just go bigger on the cassette by using the bottom cogs from a 14-XX junior cassette.
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Old Guy
26 posts
#36Apr 25, 2017, 10:33 PM
drwelby wrote:For the front derailleur mount problem Wickwerks make an adaptor to drop the derailleur down: Fitlink Adaptor. No idea if it will work with this specific setup - it's supposed make a 41 tooth big ring work so it might be too low!

Miche makes 11 speed individual cogs in all sorts of sizes to reconfigure cassettes. No need to buy a whole new one just for one cog.

I was also thinking instead of changing any of the chainrings, just go bigger on the cassette by using the bottom cogs from a 14-XX junior cassette.

Great info coming in from every where...which is great!
If nothing else, we are all sure learning a lot about Cranks and Gear Ratios! lol
The Front Derailleur has been mentioned a few times, and I have changed mine, from the stock brazed on one.
I have all Sram components on my bike, including the Front Derailleur which easily slides up and down, to adjust for any Crank.
That problem solved.
Here is a question for you guys.
Like WTF....is wrong with the Bike companies?
WHY is it soooooo insanely difficult to run any gears that you want or need on your bike, without re inventing the Wheel?
Like come on guys.....we are talking about "Bicycles" here! LOL
Two wheels....some pedals a crank and a few gears.
How difficult can it be, to make Hills easy to conquer?
Has No One out there....got....the Simple Fix?
We keep going around and around...yet.....No One has actually DONE THIS YET?
No One out there.....has all the answers in how they did it?
I thought that just buying a 46 x 30 was going to be a simple Fix....I was all set, to just buy one.....and change back to an 11x34 Cassette and be done with it.
But.....every time that we come up with the answer....we then learn.....that the Crank will not fit!
Once again.....WTF?
If we can do Engine swaps .....by putting a 350 Chevy into a VW Bug.....or they have kits to drop a 350 easily into a Jeep.....then why the hell.....can we not decide.....the Best method and the best ways for putting Bigger Gears...onto a simple "Bicycle"?
HILLS and Insane Grades......are an issue for every rider at various times......sooooo......why have the Bike Companies or Shimano and Sram not come up with easy Swaps.....in order to make anyone and any bike.... a Hill Climbing Champ?
What will FIT....in order to make this work????
WHO makes something......where do you Buy it....who sells it.....and does it work???
What are the Cross Bikes using?
No.....I do not want to go Single!
No.....I do not want to go Triple!
So.....lets not even mention those Options.
I have a BB90 .....that will not change!
So.....what 46x30 Crank is going to Fit my Trek?
It seems as if the FSA is not going to work.
So.....what will?
We are talking about "Bicycles" LOL......it should not be this difficult!
There is a Crank and there is a Cassette.
What combination is going to work and "FIT"?
Going to a 48 Crank .......is No Big Change....from a 50 Crank.
46X30.......is what I am looking for.
Does anyone ....have the Know ow, Skill and Experience .....to make this work?
Better yet......has anyone done this yet?
It should not be this Frustrating! LOL
drwelby
531 posts
#37Apr 25, 2017, 11:37 PMedited
The FSA cranks won't fit your bottom bracket because the spindle is too big - 30mm. Same with the Rotor cranks. But you should be able fit the Sugino cranks which use 24mm spindles. You probably have to change your bearings to the Shimano BB90 set.
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ljsmith
762 posts
#38Apr 26, 2017, 6:26 AM
Old Guy, I wouldn't be so quick to completely blame the bike industry for your lack of choices. They will make and sell anything if they think they can make a profit. The gravel market is still small, though it is growing. To make good profit the parts really need to be useable on road bikes also. Component companies make most of their money off OEM sales, so unless bike companies want to spec a lot of bikes with a certain part, then it is unlikely that they will make it just for aftermarket sales. Unfortunately most roadies are much more skeptical of new things than mountain bikers. I still regularly hear roadies complaining about compact cranks, disc brakes, tires larger than 25c, carbon handlebars etc. In the mountain bike world people are ready to embrace anything new, but in the roadie world tradition and myths about what is fast cloud what they think about new things. You can show up to the trail for a mountain ride with just about any bike and any equipment and its cool. Try showing up for a road ride on a disc brake bike, with 35c tires, mountain pedals/shoes, wearing a hydration pack and you will be made to feel like a moron.
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bobknh
794 posts
#39Apr 26, 2017, 7:06 AM
PoolBoyMatt wrote:Hey Old Guy,
Do you have a Trek Emonda ALR or a Trek Emonda S/SL/SLR?

If you have carbon will have a braze on front derailleur. Trek did not design this to be compatible with REALLY low gearing, meaning you will have a real problem lowering the front der enough to shift those smaller rings properly.

I work at a big Trek shop in Denver and we run into this semi-regularly. My buddy is a low-gear aficionado and works with me. His Sugino crank ticks off so many boxes for our customers but you can't make the der low enough to jive with a 46.

Good point about Trek Emonda and other Trek road frames with braze on front der. hangers --- they wont work well - or at all-with outside chainrings smaller than 50T. I've also noticed that front road der's by Shimano and SRAM are also difficult to set up for smaller outer chain rings like the 46/36 I run. The curve of the der cage has a radius designed for 50+ outer chain rings. I've been having a heck of a time trying to get my eTap front der. to shift cleanly from the 36 to the 46 without throwing the chain off. The eTap is designed to over shift slightly when going from small to big and then shift slightly back into correct alignment. Sometimes though, the over shift throws the chain off the 46- especially when the rear is on the 3 outside cogs. I've learned to compensate for this by not pedaling before I shift, and waiting a fraction of a second for the der to return to normal alignment before starting to pedal. The shifts from large to small are flawless.
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NoCoGreg
512 posts
#40Apr 26, 2017, 10:02 AM
bobknh wrote: --- they wont work well - or at all-with outside chainrings smaller than 50T. I've also noticed that front road der's by Shimano and SRAM are also difficult to set up for smaller outer chain rings like the 46/36 I run. The curve of the der cage has a radius designed for 50+ outer chain rings...

And along the same theme of "they won't work"...
Mountain FD's which are designed for smaller chainrings do not necessarily have the same cable pull as their road cousins. So depending upon which brand and model of shifter and FD indexing may not work. The SRAM 10spd road and mountain shifters and derailleurs are compatible but as others pointed out SRAM changed the cable pull for 11spd mountain shifters. And what about Shimano? Their road and mountain gear is simply incompatible.

So for an 11spd drivetrain using a 46t chainring, a SRAM setup with 11spd road shifters, 10spd mtn derailleurs, and 11spd cassette (SRAM or Shimano) should work. This setup would also allow one to swap to a road FD if shifting on the 46t was problematic. The one limitation of the SRAM 10spd RD is a 36t max cog.

Cheers,
Greg
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