nellborg wrote:Schwalbe Allround in 38c - the lighter version which I think is called the "super ground" now. These measure 40mm on my 22 ID rims whereas the GK SK 43c's that I had last year measured 41 on the same rims.
IMO, the Allrounds just feel a bit more supple, feel like they roll better, seem more versatile, and don't throw up gravel like the GK's did. The tiny knobs on the Allrounds really grip far better than one would think. I put about 1000-2000 miles on each and had no flats or issues with either tire, though.
I ran the Schable Gone all-rounds last year. Good/Fast tires on pavement and light gravel for me but the rear tire wore down fast, seems like a soft compound. Got maybe 1500 miles out of them before retirement.
I had been running the SK 38's for the last 2 years. They finally gave up the ghost last week, so I just switched to the SK 43's.....I wish I would have done that 2 years ago! Just in a few rides I can tell they roll over the soft and chunky stuff much better. Just in the few rides my average speed is almost 1 mph faster. Now I live on the rural western MN prairie so I'm pretty much 99% gravel. I really don't care how they roll on pavement. The only pavement I ride is pretty much the 1/4 mile on my town streets to get out of town to the gravel.....western MN class V gravel. And it seems from March to the middle of November I really only get 2 months a year where the gravel roads are nice and firm. Otherwise they get beat to hell during spring planting and fall harvest, then in the middle of the summer is gravel laying time for the counties and townships.....fresh, deep soft gravel, that usually doesn't get bladed for a week or two.
What's your opinion/feedback between the SK (43c) and the Challenge Gravel Grinder (42c).
I currently have 44c Raddlers, and while they're great for the desert, loose, hardpack trails in my area, they don't quite roll as well as I would like.
I had Resolutes before and they were great, but shredded quickly.
I'm choosing between the SKs and Resolutes now. The Challenge seems like it would be a nice option, but the rolling resistance numbers are scaring me.
Yeah, looks like to go bigger than 38mm in Panaracer, you'll need the SS (not the slick).
For that matter, I have seen the amazing Maxis Rambler in 38, 40, 45, 50mm sizes.
Perhaps slightly off topic. Wife and I did some tire testing last week on some pavement sections of a race that we do in May. I used the GK SS in 700 x 35c (measures 38mm on my 25mm iW rims) last year. It was the first time I'd ever used them (it's what I could get at the time) and although they worked acceptably on the gravel (I would not have wanted to have been on pure slicks that day) I found them to feel slow (compared to GP5000 32c) and not very supple compared to some other higher volume tires I'd tried.
We decided to try our 650b setup to see where it stacked up on pavement. We have 47c Ramblers mounted on these and I cannot rave enough about these tires. Tremendous grip and they work amazingly well on pavement. Well.. most pavement. The numbers don't lie. On a 4 mile 1% false flat climb (with a couple kickers) we both averaged 10w higher output than in the race this spring and 1.5 minutes slower. I would have never guessed that the SS were that much faster... but there is that "feel" thing again. On the descent that leads to that "climb", 2 miles at -1%, the Ramblers were 2 seconds faster than the SS at the same power. This is why I don't pay much attention to BRR.com. It's useful as a rough filter, but the real world is dynamic and different tires perform differently under different conditions. There is no "number".
I will be using the 38c version of the SS this year as my "groomed gravel/pavement" tire.
My favorite for mainly road and compact gravel: WTB Byway in 40 mm (they actually measure 38 mm on a 23 mm ID rim). Fast and grippy. But they can't handle wet and soft surfaces (mud, wet leaves) at all and the sidewalls are leaky.
Plushest road and compact gravel ride I ever had: René Herse Barlow Pass extralight. But they were fragile and like the Byways, not for mud + had leaky sidewalls. Also, I had one well-seated one blow off the rim at recommended pressure. Not burp air, blow off. That killed my confidence in the brand, I understand it might have been a freak thing but it's not something I want to think about while barreling down a hill.
Overall solid performers: Conti terra speed. Not stellar in any one area but very dependable. Drawback: they wear out fast and if you do a lot of miles, that becomes a cost factor.
Mud and loose terrain: Teravail Rutland in 42 mm, the durable version.
My problem: I use the bike also for my commute, which is on tarmac, about 40 km/day. So I need something fast-rolling. The solution is not a 'one tire to do it all' but (in my case) two wheelsets. One for the week, one to hit the pure gravel trails in the weekend.
Xenophon try GK SSs. They're byway-like but hold air way better. They don't roll like a slick but the puncture protection is nice. I punctured once and rode a few hundred miles since without airing up the punctured tire at all.
Volsung wrote:Xenophon try GK SSs. They're byway-like but hold air way better. They don't roll like a slick but the puncture protection is nice. I punctured once and rode a few hundred miles since without airing up the punctured tire at all.
I might give 'm a spin, thanks. The Byways have around 2k miles on them and have taken some damage during the last event in which I participated. I guess we'll soon be entering the realm of multiple small leaks that don't seal up anymore and accelerating pressure loss. Then it's time to swap. Don't know about the US but over here it's getting increasingly hard to find stuff like tyres, cassettes etc. And even though 75% of the population got the jab, corona numbers are through the roof so we might soon -again- see the end of cycling events.
Perhaps slightly off topic. Wife and I did some tire testing last week on some pavement sections of a race that we do in May. I used the GK SS in 700 x 35c (measures 38mm on my 25mm iW rims) last year. It was the first time I'd ever used them (it's what I could get at the time) and although they worked acceptably on the gravel (I would not have wanted to have been on pure slicks that day) I found them to feel slow (compared to GP5000 32c) and not very supple compared to some other higher volume tires I'd tried.
I used the 700c38 GK SS on a road ride with 4 friends this weekend and they definitively don't feel that fast as my 30mm Schwalbe Pro One's. These are rated more than 10w lower / faster on BRR so I guess that's not that weird, also the outer diameter is bigger so will 'feel' more sluggish. They do have loads of grip on tarmac covered in wet leaves and on hardpack gravel.
After using the GK SKs for a few years, I got on the Terrene Elwoods. I prefer them..slightly faster but mainly much more supple, so the feel is much nicer. The SK felt pretty wooden. The extra SKs are gone and extra Elwoods are in.
Flyer wrote:After using the GK SKs for a few years, I got on the Terrene Elwoods. I prefer them..slightly faster but mainly much more supple, so the feel is much nicer. The SK felt pretty wooden. The extra SKs are gone and extra Elwoods are in.
Which version of the Elwood? I rode the 'Tough' version for a while and thought they were just so-so. Are you on the lighter version?
I have been riding with Terrene Elwood 40 toughs over the last few months and agree with Flyer above that the ride feels fairly supple and I have been very pleased. I have taken them on many tougher rides in moderate sized rocks and lots of loose gravel. They are so far as good as and maybe better than any other 40 mm tire including Panaracer GK/SK+ in the 38 mm size ( which measure at 40 mm on my diverge's 22 mm id rims). BTW, the Elwoods measure about 42 mm on 22 mm id rims. No flats, minimal daily air leak tubeless, very easy to mount tubeless, pretty good traction on dirt, and about $50 each. Overall they are at the top on my list of 40 mm tires for tougher gravel.
Frank wrote:I have been riding with Terrene Elwood 40 toughs over the last few months and agree with Flyer above that the ride feels fairly supple and I have been very pleased. I have taken them on many tougher rides in moderate sized rocks and lots of loose gravel. They are so far as good as and maybe better than any other 40 mm tire including Panaracer GK/SK+ in the 38 mm size ( which measure at 40 mm on my diverge's 22 mm id rims). BTW, the Elwoods measure about 42 mm on 22 mm id rims. No flats, minimal daily air leak tubeless, very easy to mount tubeless, pretty good traction on dirt, and about $50 each. Overall they are at the top on my list of 40 mm tires for tougher gravel.
If you think the Terrene Elwood tough is supple, you should try the WTB Resolute, which will be about 1-2mm wider. It gives a much better ride, in my experience. (Though the Elwood is a longer-lasting tire.)
I have been riding the Elwood Lights though had a Tough on the rear first. The Lights are quite supple for sure...more supple than the Tough They do measure around 42-43 on 22.5 ID rims. I also have Resolutes I'll put on later this winter but have never tried them. I have tried some Michelin Powers as well. The Elwood Lights are my favorite so far. I'll see how the Resolutes go. They seem like they will have really good wet grip but will not roll as well.
Yup--I am a fan of Resolutes too as a great all around tire but they do measure close to 44 mm on 22 id rims---so sl too big for my 2018 diverge. I have them on my Marin gravel touring bike and have well over 6000 miles on 2 sets of them so far. I have tried to mullet them on the diverge-with resolute 42 on front and panaracer gk sk + 38 on rear and it just fits as long as I stay out of mud--(in Az this is not a problem generally). So, for mixed riding--from gravel to dirt with some obligatory pavement, I am high on Elwoods, Resolutes, and the Panaracer gk sk +. BTW, a comment about the WTB venture-- I had a big sidewall tear on a nearly new Venture and a large sharp rock gash near the large knob on another nearly new one---had to throw both tires away as unrepairable. These did not have the new SG2 flat protection tho. Needless to say, Ventures are not on my go to list, but maybe the SG2 version is better. Anyone used it yet??
I think my Stigmata is supposed to fit 45s so the Resolutes should not be an issue for me (I hope). I have not tried many others except for the 35 Michelin Power on my older Cross bike that I used as a gravel bike and the Ramblers that came stock on the Stigmata. The Powers were smaller but decent tires. The Ramblers had good grip and rolled okay. They were the Silk Shield version 60 TPI so felt a bit stiff to me. They seemed to be a bit undersized for a 40 whereas the Elwoods are oversized for a 40. I'm hoping that Terrene comes out with a modified Elwood with slightly taller side knobs. While I have not thrown the Stigmata over in corners, that would inspire some confidence to do that. Coming from mountain biking (well, I'm still a mountain biker) I like squared off profiles like Maxxis Minions, DHFs, Dissectors. I can lean them over fast and the size knobs dig into the loose trails versus tires like the Schwalbe Nobby Nics and Hans Dampfs (sp?) that have more rounded profiles. I tend to eventually lose grip on those when riding loose stuff fast.
Things were getting too dicey on my WTB byways: lots of decaying leaves, some mud, early morning fog that started freezing on the road.... They're great tires but not when it's slippery. I noticed that the need to be very cautious was impacting the enjoyment. Had a good deal on a pair -nowadays hard to find- of WTB Resolutes SG2 in 700C, 42mils and mounted them tubeless this morning.
First surprise: they were very easy to get on the rim, no trouble at all and no tire-levers involved. Had a lot more trouble getting the Byways off. Seating the bead took a blast from an airshot though. They measure 44 mm on a 23 mm ID rim. My frame is rated for 45 mm max but I've got tons of space, even keeping in mind the 6 mm safety margin.
Second -very nice- surprise after adding sealant, pumping up and swirling/bouncing them around, then waiting 11 hours: they keep pressure and I'm not seeing sidewall pinhole leaks. Not at all. Things sure look different compared to the SG2 Byways: those had virtually deflated ivernight and required extra sealant + the sidewall leaks never completely stopped, they kept dropping about 7 psi/24 hours until they hit 26 PSI.
I have been riding gravel now since Sept 2017. Here are the tires I have ridden.
For me my Raleigh Roker and Tamland 1 came with the Clement now Donnley xplor MSO's which is the best all around tire I have ridden.
I would totally disagree with the Flintridge Pro's being a fast tire. They are bulletproof but slow. Their new Alluvium tire might be fast though. I put this tire on to do the Pony Express ride lots of riders were getting flats(mostly roadie riders with the narrow tires on) but I had no trouble
3rd tire I tried was the WTB Riddler TCS fast rolling lights in 700 x 37. The other 2 tires were 700 x 40. They were a good tire and were fast but seem to wear out fast for me.
So for my limited use so far I will stick with the Donnley xplor Mso's. The paint on my Roker chips really easy so the GravelKings wouldn't work for me because of the stones they throw.
