I've been like my Gravel King SS setup and it's got me thinking do you think Rene Herse will bring a semi-slick out? How many people here would be interested in such a tire? Or is that what the UD Cavas are for? My con with those are they only come in a 42mm in the 700 & the 32mm only comes in the race compound, no jff version. Plus not as supple as the ss or RH tires m
The RH knobbies may be nearly as good on the road as their slicks. BRR found the slick 38 mm Barlow Pass between 1.4 and 3.8 W faster than the knobby 38 mm Steilacoom, depending on pressure. If they're that close in the real world there's probably not much need for something in between.
I'm not sure how much of the benefit comes from knobs and how much is just the larger tire. Recently, I found a used Schwalbe Furious Fred that I have been using as my front road+ tire. It is marked 2.0 but measures about 47mm on my 19mm internals. I used it for a road ride yesterday (the gravel part I had planned was closed because of a fire) and it rolls pretty fast as you might expect for a very light mtb tire. So far it has been fine on gravel but I have not really tested its limitations yet. I run a G-One Speed on the back. I would love for someone to make a 700x50 road tire that is fast but I'm not seeing it right now. I've read too many horror stories of the Extralight RH tires ripping sidewalls. When my lightskin/Onestar G-One Speed that I'm using wears out, then I have to consider my options again. Or Schwalbe can make it in the Speed compound instead of Speedgrip. Or Conti can make a big GP5000.
ccand51997 wrote: I would love for someone to make a 700x50 road tire that is fast but I'm not seeing it right now. I've read too many horror stories of the Extralight RH tires ripping sidewalls. When my lightskin/Onestar G-One Speed that I'm using wears out, then I have to consider my options again. Or Schwalbe can make it in the Speed compound instead of Speedgrip. Or Conti can make a big GP5000.
How about the standard or endurance casing on the RH tires?
RideWithPride wrote: How about the standard or endurance casing on the RH tires?
Because those tires have proven to be much slower tires. IMO, rubber compound is where some companies are superior. Rene Herse makes very flexible and fast tires in the Extralite option by making the sidewalls and tread super thin. Continental is able to make a fast tire that is also durable by making a beefier tire with a faster rolling rubber i.e. Black Chili. My Raceking Protections are very tough tires that also roll faster than a slick RH Barlow Pass tire. The RK is 20.2 and the BP is 24.2 in the standard casing. Tom Arnault tested an Extralite Snoqualmie Pass and found it to be as fast as the GP4000S2, i.e. about 12 watts at high psi, but regular casing RH tires were much slower. I think Schwalbe''s Onestar is also a superior rubber. I've ridden the G-One Speed Snakeskin on the rear of my mountain bike through all sorts of rough terrain without an issue and that tire is really fast in the tests (15.8 watts with a tube at 25 psi. Sooo, the RH Extralite tires are either a speed or a durability compromise. And they are really expensive.
Jan Heine published his test results for RH tires in BQ #73. He found Endurance and Standard casings are about 7% or 8% slower than Extralight on very low speed rolldown tests. In more realistic tests at 150 and 400 W input the speed difference was only about 1%. In my experience the Extralight suffered such frequent punctures I gave up on them. The Endurance was better but still not great, in one incident both tires went flat from hitting one piece of glass which broke and left a number of shards embedded in both tires. I haven't had sidewall issues with either casing but the Endurance looks tougher.
I agree about the rubber making a difference. In my experience the GP5000 and Strada Bianca Pro roll very fast and also don't pick up and hold glass. Panaracer rubber may have good grip but it holds glass shards like a magnet holds iron filings and doesn't seem as fast as the two mentioned above.
If semi-slick means the RH knobby (not herringbone), they don't pack up, and they're super predictable. They are fast and capable compared to some popular speedy/racer MTB types. Having worn out Conti RaceKings and replaced them with the Hearse knobbies, I think of the "on crack" cliche when some espouse the racer type Conti and Schwalbe tires over the Fleecer or Oracle models.
If this is about 40ish mm tires, my sleeper/surprise are the Bontrager GR1s. They're kind of like the Schwalbe knobs but not and have more got your back at the edges. They cost less than the German tires. It was availability that drove the purchase but I'd buy them again. Towards end of the Trek satisfaction guarantee I had no desire to chase after hard to get stuff.
To @stu point, I believe the RH knobs help avoid cut issues. A bigger GP5000 would interest me because I think tan sidewalls that don't have to be are about 88 on the 1-10 scale of stupid and ugly. The Challenge construction method is a different story. I'm leaning towards accepting their tan sidewalls because of how they are made, associates have good things to say about those tires, and the USA Challenge guy is is one of my local trail steward associates.
RideWithPride wrote:I've been like my Gravel King SS setup and it's got me thinking do you think Rene Herse will bring a semi-slick out? How many people here would be interested in such a tire? Or is that what the UD Cavas are for? My con with those are they only come in a 42mm in the 700 & the 32mm only comes in the race compound, no jff version. Plus not as supple as the ss or RH tires m
stu wrote:Jan Heine published his test results for RH tires in BQ #73. He found Endurance and Standard casings are about 7% or 8% slower than Extralight on very low speed rolldown tests. In more realistic tests at 150 and 400 W input the speed difference was only about 1%.
Heine does not really do testing, he writes marketing copy. The actual tests I've seen from two different sources show that the Extralite slicks roll equivalent to a GP4000 while having horrific puncture protection. The regular casing Bon Jon was 4 watts slower than the Conti Raceking Protection and the knobby version, Steilacomm?, was nearly 7 watts slower (both of those were standard casing). So for two tires it would be 14 watts slower, offer a lot worse puncture and sidewall protection (even the standard casing is not awesome) and cost more. Those stats don't make me want to try one out. Now, you say they don't pack up and they are predictable, but I've never had any control issues with my rear RK or my current front, a Schwalbe Thunderburt and I live in the desert, so mud is not an issue. Every time I think about the Rene Herse tires, the cost/value always kills me.
ccand51997 wrote: Heine does not really do testing, he writes marketing copy.
IMHO his rolldown tests are valid, especially for comparing his own products against each other. His numbers for rolldown, 150 W, and 400 W are consistent with a difference between casings of 2 to 4 W (for 2 tires between 7 and 15 mph). Adjusting that to the higher speed of the BRR tests gives somewhere around 2 W per tire, which I don't think is enough to notice unless you're racing. Of course these tests say nothing about performance compared to tires from other manufacturers.
Aren't we forgetting the equation of comfort here. Like I know if my tire setup is a bit more comfortable then I would ride a bit harder, more so on gravel.
FWIW... the Soma supple vittese sl is a good alternative to the RH tires. Considerably cheaper, almost as fast and a little thicker rubber. they also come in 48s. I've been super happy with them. No punctures in about 800 miles on all surfaces. 25-30 psi. I'm 175 lbs
karl wrote:FWIW... the Soma supple vittese sl is a good alternative to the RH tires. Considerably cheaper, almost as fast and a little thicker rubber. they also come in 48s. I've been super happy with them. No punctures in about 800 miles on all surfaces. 25-30 psi. I'm 175 lbs
I've worn out multiples of these tires and they're safer than RHs. Somas have never exploded off my rims, the same ones that RHs blow off of. Great tires.
karl wrote:FWIW... the Soma supple vittese sl is a good alternative to the RH tires. Considerably cheaper, almost as fast and a little thicker rubber. they also come in 48s. I've been super happy with them. No punctures in about 800 miles on all surfaces. 25-30 psi. I'm 175 lbs
Do you know how they are vs GK Slicks? I take the EX variant is thicker, but still supple-ish but how does Shikoro differ? Hmm maybe I should go this route instead, Do you like it better as a front or rear tire on gravel?
I would rank the RH Extralight and Soma SV EX about equally supple with both having essentially zero puncture protection. Then the RH Endurance and GK+ are slightly heavier and less supple than the two above but have some puncture protection. The tube-type 42 mm Shikoro is heavier and the tubeless 48 mm Shikoro is much heavier, both are stiffer though they still ride comfortably. The Shikoros have thicker treads and stronger casings than the lighter tires though they're not puncture proof. I'd say the Shikoros are more like touring tires.
So the SV SL are even less protective than the EX? I would have guess the EX was more like the RH standard casing. Would the Shikoro be more like the GK+ or Volummy in terms of protection and suppleness?
The Soma SV SL and EX differ only in tread rubber thickness. The Shikoro has a thicker casing than any RH tire and a thick tread. The 48 mm Shikoro is 100 g heavier than the heaviest RH slick (55 mm Endurance Plus).
