Rene Herse Oracle Ridge 48mm on my Salsa Warbird (changing from 650b Schwalbe G-One Speed 50mm)

I picked up a set of Oracle Ridge tires relatively recently.  I wasn't sure these would actually fit in my Cobalt bikes prototype ti frame, but they do (barely), and I've really been enjoying riding these.  For me the 48mm tires on this frame geometry (72º HTA, 50mm  fork offset) provide a fairly neutral level of trail on- and off-road.  The recent BQ has an article on a concept they call "pneumatic trail", suggesting that the knobby tires have a bit less effective trail due to the lower % of rubber actually on the road (resisting turning forces, to put it simply).  I can't comment on this specifically, as I don't have a smooth tire of same size to compare, but very unscientifically these don't feel ride significantly different from my 44mm Snoqualmie Pass slicks on a bike with 4mm less trail.  Or at least the difference feels less than I've come to expect with that much trail difference.  

pushstart wrote:I picked up a set of Oracle Ridge tires relatively recently.  I wasn't sure these would actually fit in my Cobalt bikes prototype ti frame, but they do (barely), and I've really been enjoying riding these.  For me the 48mm tires on this frame geometry (72º HTA, 50mm  fork offset) provide a fairly neutral level of trail on- and off-road.  The recent BQ has an article on a concept they call "pneumatic trail", suggesting that the knobby tires have a bit less effective trail due to the lower % of rubber actually on the road (resisting turning forces, to put it simply).  I can't comment on this specifically, as I don't have a smooth tire of same size to compare, but very unscientifically these don't feel ride significantly different from my 44mm Snoqualmie Pass slicks on a bike with 4mm less trail.  Or at least the difference feels less than I've come to expect with that much trail difference.  

Thank you for the input.

 

On trail or handling, I mostly know how it impacts trail riding, fun and safety. I don't come from a racer or endurance background or standpoint. I'm old but was early in making pump tracks, berms and single track that is fun. I can't imagine 72 head angle for off road riding.

 

I recently did a big off road tour in the area leaving my usual B group pals behind and have a cocky attitude wanting to try a 100 mi or km loop area MTB trails with rail trail and road. Yesterday I took the drop bar bike on part of that and ended up thinking I really do need closer to 50 mm than someone's suggestion of 42 mm tires.

 

It almost looks like the Oracle Ridge is in a league of its own. Other larger drop bar type tires don't promise or test out with so many good characteristics.

 

I can leave my house and hit 3 MTB trails and a conservancy area that's gravel that is about 10-12 mi of single track and 24 mi road. My MSO 50s are getting worn and heavy. The Oracle Ridge might be the secret weapon for that. Also for my having a pretty stiff drop bar bike.

 

Thanks again for the input.

imwjl wrote:

On trail or handling, I mostly know how it impacts trail riding, fun and safety. I don't come from a racer or endurance background or standpoint. I'm old but was early in making pump tracks, berms and single track that is fun. I can't imagine 72 head angle for off road riding.

Yeah, I'm working with Mike from Cobalt on a second iteration of this frame and will  slacken the HT to 71.5º.  I think the 72º is great for on-road riding and I'm enjoying it on less-technical singletrack, but I think the extra 0.5º would tip it a little more solidly toward off-road confidence.  I may also play with a fork with a little less rake, though this bike feels very confident on descents -- the dropper helps a lot with that too.

For technical single track, I love my MTB with 27.5x3.0" tires / 68.5º HTA, 120mm fork and 150mm dropper -- but that bike, while super fun off-road, is definitely a slog on the road.  It's always a compromise, but I'm pretty happy with the balance on this design and really only looking for slightly slacker to differentiate it from the other gravel bike that I have so I can justify keeping both   If I were wanting a bike that could double for [big-tire] road riding, this current 72º-HTA geometry would be about perfect.

pushstart wrote:

Yeah, I'm working with Mike from Cobalt on a second iteration of this frame and will  slacken the HT to 71.5º.  I think the 72º is great for on-road riding and I'm enjoying it on less-technical singletrack, but I think the extra 0.5º would tip it a little more solidly toward off-road confidence.  I may also play with a fork with a little less rake, though this bike feels very confident on descents -- the dropper helps a lot with that too.

For technical single track, I love my MTB with 27.5x3.0" tires / 68.5º HTA, 120mm fork and 150mm dropper -- but that bike, while super fun off-road, is definitely a slog on the road.  It's always a compromise, but I'm pretty happy with the balance on this design and really only looking for slightly slacker to differentiate it from the other gravel bike that I have so I can justify keeping both   If I were wanting a bike that could double for [big-tire] road riding, this current 72º-HTA geometry would be about perfect.

Interesting re Cobalt. It seems like he/they are a small business contracting the frames like Black Mountain.

On the Oracle Ridge tires. I got them and have had all of some pavement, gravel and single track time now. They are impressive like the larger Fleecer tires on our Fargo. On how well they roll.... I was surprised when I joined friends all on road bikes with 23 - 32 mm tires. They certainly have higher pedaling effort at high speeds but motored along very well. A super tire to bridge having a lot of off road capability yet fine on pavement.