Rene Herse Extralight... tubeless?

60 replies · 4,533 views

FrankTheTank
28 posts
#1Feb 28, 2022, 10:05 AM
I have some Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass Extralight tires and I am debating if I should run them tubeless, with butyl tubes or Tubolito tubes. What do you all think?

I have a friend (who is a tire/wheel engineer at Trek so he knows his shit) who runs similar RH tires tubeless, and he very much likes them that way. But I would rather not have to check/fill the tires before every ride, and I suspect that will be the case if I run tubeless? Yes or no?

So I'm leaning towards Tubolitos since I should be able to get them with my REI dividend, and I have been impressed with them on my road bike for their puncture resistance and ability to hold air (better than butyl tubes anyway).

Anyone have any experience with any of these set-ups?
0
Volsung
878 posts
#2Feb 28, 2022, 10:33 AM▲ Top
RH tires have a tendency to blow off rims. If you're lucky it will happen in the stand next to your face, if you're unlucky it will happen when you're riding.

Previous iterations of the Snoqualmie 44s (really 41s) were lighter than their 35mm tires. My experience with them were explosive, defective, and prone to flats. The sealant dries out quickly so I was constantly adding more. Pressure held for about a day and would sometimes leave puddles on the floor.

Like a bunch of other threads say, just get Challenge Strada Biancas. They're higher quality, more puncture resistant, and cheaper. The 40s are about 42mm on 25i rims, so they're the same size as Snoqualmies. They hold air for a few days. Nothing like a heavy butyl lined true tubeless tire, but that's always going to be a tradeoff if you want a better ride quality.
4
FrankTheTank
28 posts
#3Feb 28, 2022, 11:20 AM
So I guess that one vote against trying them tubeless then?
I already have the tires, that’s not going to change.
my previous experience has been that the 35c tires have been flawless on my road bike with butyl or Tubolito tubes.
I tried tubeless with 38c standard casing and that was a failure, but may have been bad sealant as much as the tires. With tubes these same tires have been great. And I believe they have improved their bead since then.
As I said before, my friend runs the 38c Extralight tires (on i30mm rims!) tubeless and loves them, but they are not “daily drivers” for him, I think he only pulls that wheelset out every few weeks.
1
stu
646 posts
#4Feb 28, 2022, 1:27 PM
I've used the Snoqualmie Pass Endurance with lightweight butyl, Tubolito, and Aerothan tubes. All gave me no blowouts and decent air retention (lose about 10% in a week). Butyl is the easiest to repair and Aerothan is the lightest. I got punctures with all of them.

The Endurance casing is denser than the Standard or Extralight and probably holds air better when used tubeless. BRR didn't test air retention but did mention the Standard casing is especially soft.

RH told me the Snoqualmie is light because it has thinner tread rubber than their narrower tires. The idea is wide tires tend to last longer so they don't need as much.

My Snoqualmie/Endurance run true to size but my Barlow/Extralight ran a bit wide.

Bottom line: I ended up running the Snoqualmie/Endurance with light butyl tubes and Panaracer FlatAway liners. That combo worked well but I care more about a big difference in reliability than a small difference in speed. I gave away my Barlow/Extralight because I got tired of the constant repairs.
1
Wj_hoffman
13 posts
#5Feb 28, 2022, 7:15 PMedited
I literally just swapped out my Snoqualmie Pass Extralights for some strada bianca pro 40s and hour ago! I’m pretty new to tubeless tires, but I think I can make a few fair observations about the SPE’s:

1. They do seem to like to eat sealant, even after they’ve kind of saturated enough so you can ride them for more than a couple hours without topping them off.
2. they are sensitive as far as mounting and I did have a blow off on one wheel when I first got them. To be fair, though, I am a noob when it comes to tubeless and I found some rim tape damage after the blow-off, so maybe I just didn’t do a good job inspecting before putting those on. after that first incident I didn’t have any problems with mounting.

3. they are “extralight”, which is good and bad. They are nice and light, comfy and feel great. Puncture resistance is not their forte, however sealant works, so wasn’t really a huge problem for me. They take bacon strips well too it’s worth noting 90% of my riding is on the road (but 100% of my two punctures requiring plugging were on the road too, so … not sure if I’m saying anything there!). Fwiw, just weighed a tire I pulled today and it’s 363g with a bunch of dried sealant and a couple of fairly chunky bacon strips still there, so they are ridiculously light for a 44, and they measured true to size on my wtb kom i23’s.

4. I think I never really trusted the tire that blew off on me so I’m retiring them about halfway through their useful life at about 4000 miles.

Just took the stradas out for a spin and though they are thinner, they feel meatier/smoother, but also a bit quicker handling if that makes sense. Not passing any judgement other than they are a Giant Pain! to mount and I’m glad I’ve got a pump with a tubeless chamber cuz I don’t think I would have gotten them on without that or a compressor. However they seem to be holding air right off the bat, which the SPEs certainly did not do.

Anyway, after saying all that, I realize OP already HAS these so probably doesn’t give a hoot right now about the stradas, so hopefully my notes about my experience with the Snoqualmie Pass Extralights were helpful!

1
shiggy
404 posts
#6Feb 28, 2022, 9:27 PM
I check air pressure before every ride, tubes or tubeless. You never know.
The RH Extralight casing can be a bit fragile run tubeless. The regular casing does pretty well.
I have torn the extralight on the rear. Have many miles with an extralight front/regular rear.
the casings are porous. Spray the casing with soapy water inside and out, use Orange Seal or Panaracer Seal Smart sealant, and they seal up quickly and retain pressure just fine.
.
1
Thijsvanderwal
209 posts
#7Mar 1, 2022, 3:57 AM
I'm running 650B x 48 Juniper Ridge Endurance Plus nubbies tubeless for off road single track adventures on hookless 25mm internal carbon hoops and haven't had any troubles getting them sealed or seated, they just work, similar to WTB Ventures. They hold air well and are basically set & forget, probably due to the extra protective layer on the side walls.

For more endurance & beach rides I've purchased 700C x 48 Oracle Ridge Extra Light slicks last week. These are mounted to another carbon hookless wheelset together with CushCore tire inserts, with 31.8mm internal they go to 51mm width (was kind of expecting them to get to 53mm). They wept quite a bit of milk during set up, I've now ridden them twice but they don't seem to hold their air very well. I expect to be pumping a lot of air before every ride for the next couple of rides and will check if there is more latex needed over the weekend. Will also remove them from the bike and rest them horizontally overnight for the milk to really penetrate the side walls.

In the 5 years I'm running rubeless I've not had any tires blow off rims, ever. Looking at the chart here https://www.renehersecycles.com/rim-and-tire-standards/ you should probably stay far away from Hunt wheels.

2
boots2000
26 posts
#8Mar 1, 2022, 10:00 AM
What rims are you using? Internal width? Hook or hookless?
What you you weigh?
What pressure do you desire to run?
What is the terrain and gravel/road split of where you ride
What is you riding style? Avoid stuff? Or slam stuff?

Those questions will help you to decide what to run. Extralight Rene Here tires definitely fall into the higher road% and smooth rider camp.
2
FrankTheTank
28 posts
#9Mar 1, 2022, 3:44 PM
Thanks everyone for your input, especially Wj_hoffman.

To answer Boots2000's questions:

- Velocity Quill, 21mm internally, hooked
- ~200lbs
- I had been running the 38c Barlow Pass Standard casing tires at 45F, 50R with tubes. So lighter casing here but wider tire... maybe 42F 48R?
- Will be mostly on pavement, some crushed limestone, rarely gravel, or dirt (but I'm one to take a fair amount of dirt shortcuts)
- I'm a pretty smooth rider overall. Rarely damage rims or get pinches.

Based on what I'm hearing so far, I'm really leaning towards just running tubes. I put some butyl tubes in there for now just to get them to shape. I think I'll save-up and get some TPE tubes to put in them. That should maximize the benefits and minimize the negatives.
1
boots2000
26 posts
#10Mar 1, 2022, 3:58 PM
I haven't used a tube in years (other than flats) and don't plan to. But if you already have the tires...
0
FrankTheTank
28 posts
#11Mar 1, 2022, 4:06 PM
All my off road bikes are tubeless, but I use tubes on some bikes, road bike, commuter bike, and this touring bike. The lower rate of air loss for tubes for these bikes that run higher pressures is more convenient, than the ride quality benefits from tubeless, and I have found the Tubolito tubes to get much fewer flats than butyl tubes so far.
1
Shaun McNally
112 posts
#12Mar 2, 2022, 8:40 AM
I've been running Tubolitos for about 2 years now. I really like them. But they can be hit or miss with air retention.....You would probably have to check air pressure before every ride regardless.
0
FrankTheTank
28 posts
#13Mar 2, 2022, 9:40 AM
Shaun wrote:I've been running Tubolitos for about 2 years now. I really like them. But they can be hit or miss with air retention.....You would probably have to check air pressure before every ride regardless.

Funny, I have found the air retention to be much better than butyl tubes, I only fill them up once a week or so. The only flaw I have had is a failure at the base of the valve stem, but. Tubolito did provide a free replacement for that.
0
Volsung
878 posts
#14Mar 2, 2022, 9:44 AM
Oh crud another one of my posts hurt Shiggy's feelings.
0
stu
646 posts
#15Mar 2, 2022, 12:22 PM
The Tubolito X-Tubo is thicker and probably holds air better than their other tubes. It also comes with a 1-year warranty against punctures (but you have to get the serial numbers before you install the tubes). The X-Tubo weighs about the same as a standard butyl tube and I'm guessing has about the same rolling resistance. Mine fit the 45 mm Cinturato Gravel H with no problems and that tire measures significantly wider than the 44 mm RH SP.
0
shiggy
404 posts
#16Mar 3, 2022, 1:17 AM
FrankTheTank wrote:Thanks everyone for your input, especially Wj_hoffman.

To answer Boots2000's questions:

- Velocity Quill, 21mm internally, hooked
- ~200lbs
- I had been running the 38c Barlow Pass Standard casing tires at 45F, 50R with tubes. So lighter casing here but wider tire... maybe 42F 48R?
- Will be mostly on pavement, some crushed limestone, rarely gravel, or dirt (but I'm one to take a fair amount of dirt shortcuts)
- I'm a pretty smooth rider overall. Rarely damage rims or get pinches.

Based on what I'm hearing so far, I'm really leaning towards just running tubes. I put some butyl tubes in there for now just to get them to shape. I think I'll save-up and get some TPE tubes to put in them. That should maximize the benefits and minimize the negatives.

Velocity rims? Stick with tubes. The Internal sidewall depth is too shallow. Tires blow off and it’s not a tire issue.
0
ljsmith
762 posts
#17Mar 3, 2022, 5:45 AM
I guess you already have the tires, so it is what it is. It seems silly to use a super thin fragile tire because it’s light and fast, then add a tube that will make it heavier and slower. With so many great gravel tires out that don’t have all the puncture, mounting and seeping issues I really have no idea why people are so obsessed with RH. Even the standard casings have poorer puncture resistance than a Gravelking and the Gravelking already has a bad reputation for puncture protection. But kudos to JH, his marketing of these tires clearly works, no other tire brand has as many fervent fanboys.
3
Spreader
62 posts
#18Mar 3, 2022, 6:56 AM
stu wrote: The X-Tubo weighs about the same as a standard butyl tube and I'm guessing has about the same rolling resistance SP.

I have to ask, what’s the purpose of spending all that cash then? Same rolling resistance, same weight…

increased puncture resistance?
0
karl
15 posts
#19Mar 3, 2022, 7:48 AM
I have been through a couple sets of SPs and found them to be true to size. I had no problems with mounting, or with running them tubeless. they are probably the most fragile of the RH tires, with sidewalls that may not seal when running sealant. I would still recommend them for a lighter rider that rides "light" as they do feel amazing, and are some of the fastest tires ive ever tried.
0
digivon
30 posts
#20Mar 3, 2022, 7:48 AM
I've ridden Snoqualmie Pass with the standard casing six thousand miles last year. Nine gravel races, no issues on all types of gravel. I'm using Orange Seal Endurance and am running then on Spinergy alloy gravel wheels 30 psi front, 32 psi rear (I weigh 190). I had two punctures due to metal in the road, the first one the sealant fixed, and the second one required a bacon strip. I can't speak to Mr. V"s experiences, but it's always the same alarming statement about blowing off rims and exploding next to his head. Maybe I'm just lucky 🙂
1

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