I currently have Mavic Allroad Pro wheels on my gravel bike.
I was about to buy some Rene Herse Barlow Pass or Snoqualmie Pass tires and run them tubeless, but saw that the Mavic rims are hookless and I know that Rene Herse don't recommend running their tires tubeless on hookless aluminium rims.
I am now looking for an alternative that will work well on hookless rims. I thought about the Vittoria Terreno Dry or Zero, but again heard that they do not pair well with hookless rims.
I'm looking for something light, supple, fast, 75% road / 25% light gravel, around 700x40/42c. Any ideas of tires that would work well (bring peace of mind) tubeless on a hookless rim?
How about a WTB Byway 700x40/44? They have a smooth center tread with good knobs on the side. Supposed to be nice and quick on pavement. I've run WTB Exposure 700x36 tires on hookless rims with no issue.
JCU wrote:How about a WTB Byway 700x40/44? They have a smooth center tread with good knobs on the side. Supposed to be nice and quick on pavement. I've run WTB Exposure 700x36 tires on hookless rims with no issue.
Didn't know they made those in 700c. Could be an interesting option!
jfrunner wrote:I currently have Mavic Allroad Pro wheels on my gravel bike.
I was about to buy some Rene Herse Barlow Pass or Snoqualmie Pass tires and run them tubeless, but saw that the Mavic rims are hookless and I know that Rene Herse don't recommend running their tires tubeless on hookless aluminium rims.
AFAIK the problem with hookless aluminum rims is the bead seat diameter tolerances aren't as tight as with carbon rims. However I think Mavic is a stickler for getting that right. I'd measure the bead seat circumference and if necessary build it up with another layer of tape.
I doubt you'll find tires with better tolerances than Rene Herse. Perhaps an email to them would help, I know from reading their journal they've tested a lot of rims.
If you ride mostly on the road you could also consider tubes. If you don't get a lot of flats the Tubolito CX/Gravel or Aerothan SV17E offer very light weight and the lightweight buytl Schwalbe SV 18 aren't that heavy. FWIW I think Jan Heine uses tubes on the road.
Personally I would not worry about all the tires saying that they are not hookless compatible. That is mostly legal stuff because if you put too much pressure in the tire it can blow off. But if you are using correct pressures in the tires then its not going to be an issue. Also the Mavics use a very good bead lock that does a really good job keeping the bead from moving around. I have a set of the Allroad Pros with the Vittoria Terreno Drys right now and have no issues at all.
The risk is that a 1mm difference between the rim diameter and the tire cases the blowoff pressure to be 20psi lower than expected on a road tire. On a fatter tire, it is not as much of a risk. On a 42c tire at 40psi, you'd have to have a lot of grip to pull the tire off the sidewall, and the tire still has a lot of ability to move around before that bead moves.
I see these are not true 'flat' hookless , just less hooked -
ljsmith wrote:Personally I would not worry about all the tires saying that they are not hookless compatible. That is mostly legal stuff because if you put too much pressure in the tire it can blow off. But if you are using correct pressures in the tires then its not going to be an issue. Also the Mavics use a very good bead lock that does a really good job keeping the bead from moving around. I have a set of the Allroad Pros with the Vittoria Terreno Drys right now and have no issues at all.
Yeah, maybe I'm overthinking this. I think I'll order the Snoqualmie Pass tires, install them tubeless on the Mavic Allroad Pros, make sure to stay well inside the pressure limit and call it a day. I also have a few friends who ran Rene Herse tires tubeless in their Mavic Allroad Elites and never had issues.
ljsmith wrote:Personally I would not worry about all the tires saying that they are not hookless compatible. That is mostly legal stuff because if you put too much pressure in the tire it can blow off. But if you are using correct pressures in the tires then its not going to be an issue.
There is truth to that. Conti states on the sidewall on many tires (i.e. GP5000) that they must be used on a hooked rim. However, that is only to achieve maximum pressure. A conti engineer stated explicitly that they can be run hookless at under 5 bar - which meets the needs of most gravel riders.
I thought Aluminum and hookless was an oxymoron. There are good reasons to make carbon hookless, but not for an extruded aluminum wheel. Besides, tolerances can be pretty tight and consistent with carbon (which comes out of a mold), but not with aluminum (which is extruded and then welded)
chas wrote:I thought Aluminum and hookless was an oxymoron. There are good reasons to make carbon hookless, but not for an extruded aluminum wheel. Besides, tolerances can be pretty tight and consistent with carbon (which comes out of a mold), but not with aluminum (which is extruded and then welded)
RH also talks about G height. Too short and tires blow off. It also helps with minor variations in BSD.
Stan’s rims have a notoriously short G height and are basically hookless. Then they increased the bead seat diameter. Some other manufacturers copied the short G and minimal hook, and I have had tires blow off at 20psi.
If there is any manufacturer I trust for well functioning tubeless, it is Mavic.
I had a few Snoqualmie Pass tires explode in my ear and cause permanent hearing damage. I'd try another size than that model. It's a small 44 (more like 42) but weighs less than their 38s and WAY less than the next size up. Makes me think there's something up with the construction.
Volsung wrote:I had a few Snoqualmie Pass tires explode in my ear and cause permanent hearing damage. I'd try another size than that model. It's a small 44 (more like 42) but weighs less than their 38s and WAY less than the next size up. Makes me think there's something up with the construction.
What rims are you using? I've had no problems with my Snoqualmie Pass (Endurance casings) on Race Face Arc Offset rims.
Mine measure about 46.5 mm on 30 mm rims at 45 psi. I haven't mounted them on smaller rims (yet).
Jan Heine says they're light because they have thinner tread than the smaller sizes. This is done because tread wear is less of an issue with larger sizes.
Are you comparing the Bon Jon Pass? It's a bit hard to tell because BRR provides pressure numbers for their Tour/E-Bike tests but not for their CX/Gravel tests.
Whatever you do, set em up with ear protection on.
To be super safe you could first test them with water rather than air.
Volsung wrote:I had a few Snoqualmie Pass tires explode in my ear and cause permanent hearing damage. I'd try another size than that model. It's a small 44 (more like 42) but weighs less than their 38s and WAY less than the next size up. Makes me think there's something up with the construction.
JCU wrote:How about a WTB Byway 700x40/44? They have a smooth center tread with good knobs on the side. Supposed to be nice and quick on pavement. I've run WTB Exposure 700x36 tires on hookless rims with no issue.
I guess they might seem nice and quick on pavement compared to big MTB knobbies? I have used a few pairs of various WTB 650x47s on my gravel wheels, and frequently swap with GP5000TL road wheels, and in my experience the WTBs suck. Unless you want to get a harder workout in a shorter distance, which I don't. I believe they were innovative in gravel and "road+" tires originally but have been stuck in place while Conti, Vittorio, Spec, Pirelli, RH etc have shot past them. Since you're not even looking in the moribund 650Bx47 space, there's no reason at all to consider WTB now IMHO
Oh mine were on 23mm internal diameter, nothing crazy like 30s. Any gravel tire's gonna be plumped up on a 30. They're Nextie Premium somethings. I had no issues with Panaracer made Soma tires or numerous Gravelkings when setting them up tubeless. I went through 4 Snoqualmie Passes since they kept getting warrantied due to blisters. My tubed Barlow Passes were great though.
BRR info used to be more public, so I'm comparing it to my memory of that. I had a post about it when the info was available.
For WTB tires, Resolutes are great. Byways are kinda slugs, but they're also very puncture resistant on the treads. Resolutes are basically Byways with the thick center cut down to knobs so they weigh a lot less than if they were knobs added to a slick.
Scuba, welding gas, and other high-pressure tanks are pressure tested with water. Since water is almost incompressible the energy stored in the tank is low and if it bursts no damage is done. If you fill a tire with air, which is compressible, each stroke of the pump adds energy approximately (ignoring the temperature rise) equal to the pressure times the volume. That adds up to a lot.
I've never tried testing with water but I'd start this way: Find an old pump and an old tube you don't like too much. Press as much air as you can out of the tube. Submerge the pump (up to the air inlet) in water and pump until only water comes out. Install the tire and tube, attach the pump, and start pumping. After the tube expands to fill the tire keep pressing the pump handle to maintain the pressure you're looking for. If you let up the tire will relax a bit and the pressure will drop to nearly zero since the water won't expand. Think of bleeding hydraulic brakes, you don't want any trapped air. Note this will surely trash the tube and probably the pump and gauge as well. But if the tire blows off it won't trash you.
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