Conti Race King Protection as a 60/40 Road/Off-Road “Monster” tire?

42 replies · 6,852 views

DarKris
83 posts
#1May 27, 2021, 8:33 PM
I bought the Race King Protection 29 x 2.2 tires as I was looking at how low the rolling resistance is and how relatively light the tires are for their size, but are these actually a good tire for me to run?
I’m currently running WTB Resolutes because I was under the impression that the narrower tire would be better for road but the knobs would still give decent off road grip (I saw many reviews praising the Reso’s in this aspect). I recently did a road group ride at about 15-20mph pace on some 27.5 x 2.1 Mezcals, on 30mm internal rims, and was suffering immensely after doing ~28mi. I also realized the version of the Mezcals I had were the older slower rolling versions.

I’m all over the place I apologize, but I thought after this ride that I needed to be running a narrower tire that rolls better. That said for my weight (260lbs - used to be 360lbs) I prefer the fact that 2 inch tires give me the ability to run pressures like 30-40psi while being well supported and not folding over/squirming. So after running the Resolutes only to find that I had to run them at ~50psi to feel good to ride, I want to go back to larger tires but I want to have as much rolling efficiency I can get, hence why I bought the Race Kings.

So what I want to know - was this the right call? Granted most of my riding will be on pavement, but I want something close to a 2” tire that’s good on pavement for extended periods of time, but also capable off-road in mixed conditions (Hardpack to light dirt). So are the Race Kings a good fit, or would something else be better suited for my needs (or are my needs unrealistic)?
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stu
646 posts
#2May 27, 2021, 10:33 PM
I've used 4 larger tires on 30 mm (internal) rims with lightweight tubes:

45 mm Pirelli Cinturato Gravel H: Rolls pretty well on pavement and has low knobs which give some grip off road. I haven't ridden them off road enough to tell you much about grip. They measure 49 mm on those rims.

48 mm Soma Shikoro: Rolls pretty well on pavement but has no knobs. It's heavier and measures 51 mm on those rims.

48 mm Soma Supple Vitesse: Rolls well on pavement and has no knobs. It's very light and I got numerous flats. It also measures 51 mm on those rims.

44 mm Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass (Endurance casing): Rolls well on pavement and has no knobs. It's fairly light and has better puncture resistance than the Vitesse. You can get a slightly heavier and slower Endurance Plus casing or lighter and more fragile Extralight casing. All are very expensive. Mine measure 46 mm on these rims.

I don't think you would gain much with anything narrower than 44 mm unless you go all the way to the 32 mm Continental Grand Prix 5000 racing tire but I don't think that would work on soft surfaces for a big guy.

You could go bigger with the 55 mm Rene Herse Antelope Hill (slick) or Fleecer Ridge (knobby) or the 55 mm Schwalbe Marathon Almotion lightweight touring tire. I've ridden the 40 mm version of the Almotion on pavement and a variety of gravel and trails. It seems fine on pavement and with its shallow tread is OK on easy gravel.
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Familyridz
70 posts
#3May 28, 2021, 12:42 AM
I don't know how small you can safely go with 30mm rims, but here is WTB's chart https://www.wtb.com/pages/tire-rim-fit-chart . Wheel weight costs more than weight elsewhere because it takes work to get it spinning with rotational acceleration as well as well as to accelerate it forwards. Obviously, the wider the rim and the bigger the tire, the more metal and rubber you are spinning. I know from riding an MTB with commuter tires on pavement, switching to tires with a solid center tread block and pumping them hard enough that side knobs did not make road contact made a huge speed/resistance difference. I'm pretty close to your size, but also pulling a 70lb kid on a Burley tag a long connected to the steel Burley Moose Rack on my steel Jamis Renegade--about 400 lbs of combined rolling weight with bottles, spares, tools, etc. Unless the roads you ride are badly washboarded or potholed, any gravel tire will handle light dirt and hardpack unless its got rocks or roots. We're riding on stuff like that on fire roads with an inch or more of gravel on top in places and doing fine with 700c wheels and 36-38mm tires. Compared to 110 PSI 25mm on my road bike, it's quite plush at 50-55 psi on pavement. There was a thread a few days ago looking for road & light gravel tires here https://www.ridinggravel.com/forum/?p=post%2Fneed-a-substitute-for-rene-herse-endurance-tires-11662273%3Fpid%3D1325424859

I had similar thread before that which I posted a link to in a comment on that thread. I ended up going with the Specialized Pathfinder Pro 700x38 for my rear tire because it has a solid bar in the middle that sticks up above the knobs at higher pressures, but pretty good knobs on the sides for gripping softer stuff. They make a version that might work for you https://www.specialized.com/us/en/pathfinder-pro-2bliss-ready/p/157870?color=237517-157870&searchText=00019-4411&msclkid=00f8f758072f12fd83c397e8787d8246&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=(ROI)%20Shopping%20-%20Tubes&utm_term=4574861728315426&utm_content=Tubes

It's been good so far, with one minor complaint that the edges of the center bar had raised ridges, and on my second ride I hit loose dirt on pavement in a corner. My guess is I was only making contact on that raised ridge and slipped sideways an inch or two. After about 50 road miles, the ridges are worn down and grip is fine.
DarKris
83 posts
#4May 28, 2021, 6:26 AM
Oh so my 30mm rims is 650b and on my other bike. I actually replaced those Mezcals with 48mm Gravelking Slicks and I’m using that bike for primarily road riding.

My drop bar MTB is the one running 700c wheels. Those are 22mm internal width. I was running WTB Venture SG2s 50mm, then Vittoria Barzo 2.25 XC Race tires, and now I’m trying WTB Resolutes non-SG2. I’m not really liking the Resolutes off-road, again b/c of how high I have to run them pressure wise, so I thought I’d go back up in size. The Race Kings I already bought and should arrive today, and I was thinking that they would be good since they have a lower measured rolling resistance compared to most of the recorded gravel tires on BRR. I’m just not sure how that lab testing will actually translate to extended road riding when trying to get to some off-road riding.
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Angstrom
181 posts
#5May 28, 2021, 6:54 AM
I have the RaceKings on a hardtail MTB that was my “gravel bike” for a while. They are fast for their size. I think I surprised some folks at gravel events who assumed I’d be slow. There is more buzz on pavement than a road tire, but not bad.

At your weight they seem like a perfectly reasonable thing to try.
2
imwjl
304 posts
#6May 28, 2021, 8:28 AMedited
We wore out a Race King Protection set on our Fargo. Now that bike's got a few hundred miles with the Fleecer Ridge that replaced the Race Kings. In their day or time the Race Kings were good. Now? No way.

The Fleecer Ridge don't pack like racer weenie and roadie stuff yet they roll SO well. Neither of Fleecer Ridge or Race King has a sticky rubber hold you aspect on some dirt like a non-race MTB tire but the Fleecer Ridge have some predictability on edge when Race Kings don't.

There's really just one problem with the Fleecer Ridge - the stupid tan wall only choice. I just try to shield my eyes and plug my nose for the silly retro look and confess I now have those Hearse knobby tires in two widths.

Edit:
We have the Hearse knobby 48s on 23 mm inner and 55 on 21 mm inner rims. They are consistent in design so rolling on edge doesn't get that Maxxis style ridge. They don't all of a sudden go on you like the Race Kings. With so much time with both now I just cannot imagine choosing Race Kings over the Hearse knobbies. The Hearse knobbies are do you best to ignore the silly retro aspect and go ride.

With Race Kings joining friends with road bikes for a casual ride felt far more like dragging an anchor as speed built than the Hearse knobbies.
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DarKris
83 posts
#7May 28, 2021, 9:04 AM
imwjl wrote:
We wore out a Race King Protection set on our Fargo. Now that bike's got a few hundred miles with the Fleecer Ridge that replaced the Race Kings. In their day or time the Race Kings were good. Now? No way.

The Fleecer Ridge don't pack like racer weenie and roadie stuff yet they roll SO well. Neither of Fleecer Ridge or Race King has a sticky rubber hold you aspect on some dirt like a non-race MTB tire but the Fleecer Ridge have some predictability on edge when Race Kings don't.

There's really just one problem with the Fleecer Ridge - the stupid tan wall only choice. I just try to shield my eyes and plug my nose for the silly retro look and confess I now have those Hearse knobby tires in two widths.

Edit:
We have the Hearse knobby 48s on 23 mm inner and 55 on 21 mm inner rims. They are consistent in design so rolling on edge doesn't get that Maxxis style ridge. They don't all of a sudden go on you like the Race Kings. With so much time with both now I just cannot imagine choosing Race Kings over the Hearse knobbies. The Hearse knobbies are do you best to ignore the silly retro aspect and go ride.

With Race Kings joining friends with road bikes for a casual ride felt far more like dragging an anchor as speed built than the Hearse knobbies.

I don’t mind tan walls personally, but what casing are you running? Maybe I could save a bit for those tire looking at their prices 😳
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imwjl
304 posts
#8May 28, 2021, 9:17 AM
DarKris wrote:

I don’t mind tan walls personally, but what casing are you running? Maybe I could save a bit for those tire looking at their prices

We have the endurance. Friends have same or endurance plus. We wouldn't do it any other way. All those among my associates who've complained went the weight weenie route. IMO saving 20 grams for a type of riding that calls for reliability is goofy.
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stu
646 posts
#9May 28, 2021, 9:50 AM
Familyridz wrote:I don't know how small you can safely go with 30mm rims, but here is WTB's chart https://www.wtb.com/pages/tire-rim-fit-chart .
Portions of that chart don't make sense to me. For example, it says on a 16 mm rim the largest tire you can run is 32 mm but if you add just 1 mm to the rim then a 50 mm tire is OK. I don't know how that chart was developed but I'm guessing some combinations weren't tested.
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Familyridz
70 posts
#10May 28, 2021, 10:20 AM
Me neither, but from my past research, I’d guess it is based on their European standard rims and tires (like WCS, but minus the air retention without sealer that made sidewalls too heavy). So I’m guessing it’s also about their tires and the recommended min & max pressures at different sizes that pass the standard tests. As the tire narrows down to rim width, I’d assume that both burps and rim damage become more common at minimum pressure.

As it gets too big, I’d also guess the sidewall angle at the rim might start to be too close to closing the circle and unseat the bead at max pressure.

There is probably some breakpoint where WTB lowers rated minimum and max pressure as tire size increases, and also what range in developing tubeless rim & tire compatibility they tested for.

Of course, there is always the possibility of the old “freshness dating” vs. expiration date commercial incentive—how do we make people throw out perfectly good old stuff and buy expensive nearly identical new stuff, but only God and WTB know the real reason(s)!
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DarKris
83 posts
#11May 28, 2021, 11:02 AM
So it looks like the Race Kings are either hit-or miss for my riding needs. I’m interested in the Fleecer Ridge but that might be well out of my budget.

I mentioned I was using the 27.5 Mezcals in the older/slower rolling version, but I’m now reconsidering those in the newer 29 x 2.1 version.
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imwjl
304 posts
#12May 28, 2021, 11:39 AM
Race Kings are plenty fine but the Hearse knobbies are truly great with most who try them in agreement.

My inner cheapskate balked at first. After a 142 mi tour with 47 mi of ATV yucked up gravel and realizing how they roll on pavement there was no hesitation to get then on both bikes.

IMO tires and your bike engine are two of the most important components.
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Jumbo
123 posts
#13May 28, 2021, 11:51 AM
When I had a bike that would clear them, I liked Race Kings a lot. I wish Conti would make them in 45mm (there's a gap between them and the Terra Speeds that's missing in their lineup). I got them to replace Thunder Burts, which had a lot of QC and puncture issues.
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stu
646 posts
#14May 28, 2021, 12:42 PM
imwjl wrote:IMO tires and your bike engine are two of the most important components.
Good observation!

I'd say the engine is the most important but unfortunately by far the most difficult to improve. 😉

I'd put the frame next because you'll be miserable if it doesn't fit your body, your riding style, your terrain, and the components you want. This too is not easy to change.

I'd put tires third, way ahead of whatever might be fourth. And tires are easy and relatively cheap to change. I say relatively because two $90 tires, two $30 tubes, and two $20 liners add up.
0
owly
328 posts
#15May 28, 2021, 4:57 PMedited
DarKris,

I'm going to suggest, for road and 'only' hard-packed + light dirt, the Conti Speedking Racesport 2.2" would be your ideal tyre IF you're not doing crazy high speed sharp turns downhill on loose over hard. i.e. when offroad, you're taking things fairly cruisy.

Mostly at the moment I switch back and forth between the Speedking and RaceKing or run a combo (RaceKing front) depending on where I'm headed.

At times I will run RaceKing Protection front and back on 100km+ road rides, to then go offroad into the heavier stuff, then ride back on road. I just take it easy until I get there. Flogging myself near 28+mph on road with those, I'd be dead!

I'd love to try those super dooper wiz bang latest knobby RH, but their 3mm knob height is overkill for me on road. [At times I will use their 700x38 knobby in the wet offroad, or dry gravel rides]. I'm sure they would roll a touch faster on road than their older knob design.

There is an older Conti RaceKing Racesport which weighs about 80gm+ less than the Protection model. This tyre has the same supple and thin sidewall as the SpeedKing and is something I'm seriously considering as I don't really like the fairly stiff sidewall / ride feel offroad of the Protection. 61kg rider though; I like supple sidewalls.
Surprisingly there is also a CrossKing Racesport.

Going back to the SpeedKing it is a very fast tyre on road for that width. Obviously once you get to certain speeds its width/aero comes into play. I find it just as fast as the extralight filetread [similar widths+weight] ReneHerse. The Conti being a cheaper tyre.

Have always ran OrangeSealEndurance.

Perhaps even a SpeedKing rear, with one of the faster ThunderBurt models up front could work for you. TB has about a 1.5+mm knob height.

(27.5) Speedking/Raceking thoughts from JustRideIt, at the top:- https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=166159&sid=ac944bb6e445cb6b3cc781c50d18c4e2&start=15
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DarKris
83 posts
#16May 28, 2021, 5:34 PM
So I actually figured out what I wanted to do, and that was screw trying to turn my gravel bike into a road bike with fat tires - technically I already have that with my Giant Toughroad GX with 650b x 48 Gravelking Slicks. I think I'm just gonna optimize for good off-road rolling efficiency & grip while not being *too* draggy on the road. I think I'm done obsessing over tires.

I went with the Mezcal III 29 x 2.25, didn't go for the XC Race casing cause I want the durability. It's within budget and I think I got the correct version of these tires that should roll better lol. Overall I think I'm just going to stop obsessing with trying to

imwjl wrote:IMO tires and your bike engine are two of the most important components.

stu wrote:Good observation!

I'd say the engine is the most important but unfortunately by far the most difficult to improve. 😉

Yeah, I think that's where I'm at with all this. I think me being underbiked (or overbiked - not sure where that falls here) led me to being obsessed with trying to be as optimal as possible with my bike setup. Like I want to be as efficient as others running bikes that are 5-8lbs lighter with tires that are 15-20mm narrower.

Sure I could just "upgrade my engine" but do I really want to work 3x as hard to keep up? Not sure if it's really worth it.
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stu
646 posts
#17May 29, 2021, 2:21 AM
imwjl wrote:We have the endurance. Friends have same or endurance plus. We wouldn't do it any other way. All those among my associates who've complained went the weight weenie route. IMO saving 20 grams for a type of riding that calls for reliability is goofy.
Do you and your friends notice significant differences between the Endurance and Endurance Plus?
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imwjl
304 posts
#18May 29, 2021, 6:28 AM
stu wrote:Do you and your friends notice significant differences between the Endurance and Endurance Plus?

The one who got same Fleecer Ridge is fast and got them with commute and urban riding in mind. He's incredibly fast no matter what he rides.
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stu
646 posts
#19May 29, 2021, 2:36 PM
imwjl wrote:The one who got same Fleecer Ridge is fast and got them with commute and urban riding in mind. He's incredibly fast no matter what he rides.
I'm incredibly slow no matter what I ride but I'm even slower if I have to stop and fix a flat. That's happened with the Endurance casings so I'm wondering if the Endurance Plus casings are noticeably tougher.
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DarKris
83 posts
#20Jun 3, 2021, 11:18 AM
Okaaaay well I kinda lied. The Race Kings came in and I decided that I’d try them. They measured both sub 600g (590g range) and they aired up tubeless pretty well. They didn’t seem to lose a lot of air like with the Resolutes, also only about 100gs heavier than those but much more volume.

These do “feel” surprisingly fast. I really want to do a test ride so that I can fully compare them to the Resolutes, but I’m trying to take it easy on my knee as I’ve been overdoing the riding despite injuring myself....
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