Switching Back To Tubes

63 replies · 4,392 views

chas
1,305 posts
#21Jun 19, 2018, 9:01 AM
To feed my tire fetish, I use both tubed and tubeless.
The gravel tires are set up tubeless because I can run low pressures without getting a pinch flat.
But for my road tires, lately I have been running tubed on the front. I almost never get a flat in the front, and they are super easy to change anyway. I can swap tires in a few minutes, go ultra light, moderate or more extreme with weight, tread, speed, traction, cush….
Something like a Maxis rambler really lets me take advantage of the light weight possibilities of running tubeless, but realistically many gravel tubeless tires have the tube built into the tire so there is no weight savings (I’m looking at you Schwalbe).
0
Skldmark
164 posts
#22Jun 19, 2018, 10:47 AMedited
i just mounted 2 WTB Riddler 700/37 on 2-3 different non-TR rims w/tubes. They seemed ok going on but required soaping the bead, 75psi, letting them sit, and working the bead with padded channel-lock pliers to get the final bit of bead to pop up. Since I have spare wheels for just such experimenting I went ahead and put them on rear wheels to get some mileage out of them. But most likely won’t take these into the boonies.
—of course you could ride home with the bead causing a flat-spot if necessary to repair while on a ride.
0
TiGeo
77 posts
#23Jun 20, 2018, 2:35 PM
It certainly make swapping tires easier and as you say, if you aren't riding anything really gnarly, your'e probalby fine with tubes. For me, it's all about the no pinch flats at v. low pressures that make tubeless my go-to...ain't no way I'd be running 23-25 psi with tubes...I would have pinch flatted twice on today's ride! I have tubes in my road bike and have had exactly one flat tire in 4 years on that bike.
0
bwepps
38 posts
#24Jun 21, 2018, 9:04 AM
Honestly I believe that tubeless vs. tubed can be conditional just like running different tires based on the conditions.

When I did the 2017 Dirty Kanza I ran tubeless with 700x40 (43) Gravel King SK's. I experienced zero flats for the 207 mile beating. At the first really sketchy downhill that was covered with sharp flintrock the bottom looked like a grenade had gone off. It was peeps that we running tubes. There were flats everywhere and I heard of one poor soul that had 5 flats by the halfway point. After that race I was sold on tubeless for my gravel bike. In higher tire pressure situations I'm not as convinced to tubeless merits, but I have witnessed orange seal (the best sealant IMHO) work it's magic many times.

Flats are also usually a by-product of running the wrong tire pressure. There are many people that still way over inflate their tires.
1
bobknh
794 posts
#25Jun 21, 2018, 12:34 PM
bwepps wrote:Honestly I believe that tubeless vs. tubed can be conditional just like running different tires based on the conditions.

When I did the 2017 Dirty Kanza I ran tubeless with 700x40 (43) Gravel King SK's. I experienced zero flats for the 207 mile beating. At the first really sketchy downhill that was covered with sharp flintrock the bottom looked like a grenade had gone off. It was peeps that we running tubes. There were flats everywhere and I heard of one poor soul that had 5 flats by the halfway point. After that race I was sold on tubeless for my gravel bike. In higher tire pressure situations I'm not as convinced to tubeless merits, but I have witnessed orange seal (the best sealant IMHO) work it's magic many times.

Flats are also usually a by-product of running the wrong tire pressure. There are many people that still way over inflate their tires.

I totally agree with your comment. Tubes are great, and much less hassle for the less challenging routes I usually ride -- but no question -- the flint hills of the DK demand the flat protection of tubeless. Even at that, some very experienced gravel riders had flats at the DK - even with their tubeless set ups.
1
Xenophon
44 posts
#26May 29, 2022, 2:20 PM▲ Top
I'm revisiting this issue after a very annoying day last week when I was chasing down a slow leak in my tubeless setup. Turned out it was not the tire, not the valve stem but the rim tape that was slowly degrading and causing increasingly rapid pressure loss (from flat in 2 days to flat in 6 hours). I didn't have fresh rim tape so cussed, ditched the Stans that I had added a couple days before, removed the valve stem and popped in a tube.

Then I ordered new rim tape and went for a ride. Four days later the rim tape arrived. But I left the tube in place: no twice-weekly air top ups, keeps pressure beautifully, no airshots and praying that the beads will seat properly, no unscrewing valve cores and hoping that the Stans race day won't clog up the injector and spew out in all directions, no sweating sidewalls.

The obvious downside: the day that tube springs a leak I'll have to take off the wheel, (half) remove the tire, pay attention that I don't pinch the tube while popping the bead over the rim and then inflate the thing. If history is a reference that usually happens either at 6:30 AM in the pouring rain when I'm hurrying to work or at 4 PM with the sun radiating me into the ground while I'm hurrying home to pick up our kid from school.

I guess it's not a black/white thing and depends on your riding. I ride a lot of miles but most of them on relatively good pavement. At the moment I'm on the fence about whether the advantages of tubeless riding outweigh the drawbacks of a tubeless setup.
3
ccand51997
265 posts
#27May 29, 2022, 8:05 PM
Xenophon wrote:I'm revisiting this issue after a very annoying day last week when I was chasing down a slow leak in my tubeless setup. Turned out it was not the tire, not the valve stem but the rim tape that was slowly degrading and causing increasingly rapid pressure loss (from flat in 2 days to flat in 6 hours). I didn't have fresh rim tape so cussed, ditched the Stans that I had added a couple days before, removed the valve stem and popped in a tube.

I guess it's not a black/white thing and depends on your riding. I ride a lot of miles but most of them on relatively good pavement. At the moment I'm on the fence about whether the advantages of tubeless riding outweigh the drawbacks of a tubeless setup.

When tubeless is working and hassle-free it is just about perfect, but then all the things you described happen, you want to bang your head on the wall. Imagine living in the hot, dry desert where tubeless sealant takes about two weeks to start turning to sludge. I've arrived at a happy medium where I try to set something up tubeless and if it is easy, I run it that way. If it turns into a hassle, I put a tube in. It is very cyclical for me. Recently I've been trying to run some light, fast tires tubeless (Conti Speedking Racesport/Schwalbe Furious Fred) and for a while, it seems perfect but then inevitably the thin tire starts to bleed, gets a small cut and I ask myself why I don't just run Raceking Protections all the time instead of dealing with flimsy tires?
1
bobknh
794 posts
#28May 29, 2022, 8:40 PM
I'm no longer active on the Gravel Riding Forum. But I still ride gravel daily in my southern NH gravel paradise. Other than the fact that my tires are wider (50mm), I still feel that tubeless is not worth the hassle for me. This isn't a rejection of tubeless tech., but rather an observation, that despite riding over 5,000 miles a year on my mix of paved and unpaved roads, I have very few punctures or pinch flats. That being said, were I experiencing more frequent punctures or pinch flats, I wouldn't hesitate going back to tubeless. I would add however, that currently, it is almost impossible to buy gravel wheels and tires that aren't tubeless compatible.
I just wish that tire and wheel manufacturers would get their standards better coordinated, so that it wasn't so damn hard to install these tires regardless of tubeless or with tubes.
2
bwepps
38 posts
#29May 30, 2022, 6:46 AM
I hear what you're saying on tubes vs. tubeless for sure. I think that decision certainly is influenced by your bike + rims/tires, where you live, and what you're riding on.

I did a 74 mile "Rapha" Gravel ride yesterday in the driftless area of IL and we hit some really sketchy gravel descents, B-Roads, big stones, etc. I couldn't imagine running tubes on a course like that. And frankly I saw plenty of peeps on the side of the road with flats who were running tubes. Can tubeless be a PITA to set up - absolutely. But once done, it affords me peace of mind when I'm out riding. I always keep a tube on the bike in case of a tire slice, etc.
1
imwjl
304 posts
#30May 30, 2022, 7:35 AM
My regular posse of riders has includes two pals who tease the rest of us about the hassle or bother with tubeless. I've already tallied 3 instances of the tubed riders having to fix a flat during rides but not the rest of us.

Tubeless is so mature and common now there's also little to no reason to not know all the important techniques or tricks at the start of going tubeless.
2
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#31May 30, 2022, 8:01 AM
bwepps wrote:I hear what you're saying on tubes vs. tubeless for sure. I think that decision certainly is influenced by your bike + rims/tires, where you live, and what you're riding on.

I did a 74 mile "Rapha" Gravel ride yesterday in the driftless area of IL and we hit some really sketchy gravel descents, B-Roads, big stones, etc. I couldn't imagine running tubes on a course like that. And frankly I saw plenty of peeps on the side of the road with flats who were running tubes. Can tubeless be a PITA to set up - absolutely. But once done, it affords me peace of mind when I'm out riding. I always keep a tube on the bike in case of a tire slice, etc.

bwepps was this an organized ride? I am on a 50 State 50 mile gravel ride/race and haven't done IL. yet? What was the entry fee and how organized was the ride?

Many thanks
Zman
1
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#32May 30, 2022, 8:26 AM
So I see this is an old thread. I have been riding gravel since 2017 and have tried I think 4 different set of tires.
1st up was the Clement now Donnley xplor mso probably the best tire I have liked so far
2nd was the Kenda Flintridge Pro bullet proof tire but heavy
3rd was the WTB Riddler fast rolling light in 700 x 37 great tire but the tire wear seem to be fast.
4th and last was the Maxis Rambler in 700 x 45 that I bought this spring to ride the CoUt2 gravel race in Colorado/Utah that canceled the night before the race by BLM supposedly because of rain in the desert. Lucky for me I bailed because of a cold/wet spring here in PA and I didn't get enough training in.

Here are the flats I have had so far.
1 was a flat tire in the basement on y beater bike from a small thorn because of the sealant being dried out
2 was leaving my bike in the car in a 90 deg. F + day and I guess you could say it just burped the tire
3 was this spring when I was at a race and the valve core starting leaking. It will be a piece that I take with me to all my rides/races in the future.

So with that being said 26 races now I think in 18 States with all kind of riding conditions I have no problems with running tubeless. Yeah it's kind of a pita getting them set up and usually let my LBS do that for me. I guess the point difference for me from running tubed or tubeless is as a heavier rider 200 lbs. you have to run a higher tire psi when running tubed which then jars the heck out of you. I will freely admit than when I first started running tubeless it was really hard for me to ride around in what seems like a 1/2 flat tire. I run 40 rear 35 front and if I know the is more macadam run 45 rear and 35 in the front. The tubeless thingy messing with my mind was somewhat funny the other summer as I was up in the mts. on a fire tower road in the boonies and thought my rear tire was going flat. I came bailing off the mts. even though there was nothing wrong with my tire. Biggest problem with me tubeless is remember when to refresh/top off my sealant. Starting to chart that.

Zman
0
bwepps
38 posts
#33May 30, 2022, 8:27 AM
Zurichman wrote:

bwepps was this an organized ride? I am on a 50 State 50 mile gravel ride/race and haven't done IL. yet? What was the entry fee and how organized was the ride?

Many thanks
Zman

Hiya @Zurichman!
It was hosted by Rapha Chicago and Comrade Cycles and a few super local peeps to the area. Organized and free!
0
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#34May 30, 2022, 8:32 AMedited
bwepps wrote:
Hiya @Zurichman!

It was hosted by Rapha Chicago and Comrade Cycles and a few super local peeps to the area. Organized and free!

I looked it up after posting that this might be what they use to call the 10,000 race. How was the water stops and over all race support even though it was listed as self supporting? Would love to do it next year as my IL. State ride. Who doesn't like free.

Zman
1
imwjl
304 posts
#35May 30, 2022, 10:57 AM
Zurichman wrote:So I see this is an old thread. I have been riding gravel since 2017 and have tried I think 4 different set of tires.
1st up was the Clement now Donnley xplor mso probably the best tire I have liked so far
2nd was the Kenda Flintridge Pro bullet proof tire but heavy
3rd was the WTB Riddler fast rolling light in 700 x 37 great tire but the tire wear seem to be fast.
4th and last was the Maxis Rambler in 700 x 45 that I bought this spring to ride the CoUt2 gravel race in Colorado/Utah that canceled the night before the race by BLM supposedly because of rain in the desert. Lucky for me I bailed because of a cold/wet spring here in PA and I didn't get enough training in.

Here are the flats I have had so far.
1 was a flat tire in the basement on y beater bike from a small thorn because of the sealant being dried out
2 was leaving my bike in the car in a 90 deg. F + day and I guess you could say it just burped the tire
3 was this spring when I was at a race and the valve core starting leaking. It will be a piece that I take with me to all my rides/races in the future.

So with that being said 26 races now I think in 18 States with all kind of riding conditions I have no problems with running tubeless. Yeah it's kind of a pita getting them set up and usually let my LBS do that for me. I guess the point difference for me from running tubed or tubeless is as a heavier rider 200 lbs. you have to run a higher tire psi when running tubed which then jars the heck out of you. I will freely admit than when I first started running tubeless it was really hard for me to ride around in what seems like a 1/2 flat tire. I run 40 rear 35 front and if I know the is more macadam run 45 rear and 35 in the front. The tubeless thingy messing with my mind was somewhat funny the other summer as I was up in the mts. on a fire tower road in the boonies and thought my rear tire was going flat. I came bailing off the mts. even though there was nothing wrong with my tire. Biggest problem with me tubeless is remember when to refresh/top off my sealant. Starting to chart that.

Zman
The MSO tubeless version is NOT for weight weenies but extraordinary good overall for how it is not flat prone, rolls well and is comfy. Tufo makes a high thread count version of that tire. I loved it most for covering single track, commuting and snow.
0
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#36May 30, 2022, 11:49 AMedited
imwjl

The MSO tubeless version is NOT for weight weenies but extraordinary good overall for how it is not flat prone, rolls well and is comfy. Tufo makes a high thread count version of that tire. I loved it most for covering single track, commuting and snow.

I have never heard of this tire until you mention it. is that because it's looks to be European mfg? Which tire are we talking about the Thundero or the Speedero? What is the thread count on these tires?

https://www.tufo.com/en/gravel/

Zman
0
imwjl
304 posts
#37May 30, 2022, 12:19 PM
Zurichman wrote:imwjl

The MSO tubeless version is NOT for weight weenies but extraordinary good overall for how it is not flat prone, rolls well and is comfy. Tufo makes a high thread count version of that tire. I loved it most for covering single track, commuting and snow.

I have never heard of this tire until you mention it. is that because it's looks to be European mfg? Which tire are we talking about the Thundero or the Speedero? What is the thread count on these tires?

https://www.tufo.com/en/gravel/

Zman
IIRC, "WC" designation on Donnelley site is the Tufo-made tire. Bike Tires Direct imports Tufo. Tufo sells direct too. I am trying to convince some friends to try some for the sake of shipping costs. The popular rolling resistance site reviews one model. a CX racing friend said their CX tubular are good. I recall a Czech site reviewing the Speedero where I used Google to translate. The Tufo branded tires have a tread pattern not too unlike MSO and the classic solid center design.

More and more I'm questioning some tire expenses. I was bummed to see Trek raise prices in tires I really like. I'm not thinking Schwalbe are worth $85 anymore. The unusual and effective Rene Hearse knobby tread is the only premium priced tire I've bought in past few years I felt were worth it.
0
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#38May 30, 2022, 12:45 PM
imwjl wrote:

IIRC, "WC" designation on Donnelley site is the Tufo-made tire. Bike Tires Direct imports Tufo. Tufo sells direct too. I am trying to convince some friends to try some for the sake of shipping costs. The popular rolling resistance site reviews one model. a CX racing friend said their CX tubular are good. I recall a Czech site reviewing the Speedero where I used Google to translate. The Tufo branded tires have a tread pattern not too unlike MSO and the classic solid center design.

More and more I'm questioning some tire expenses. I was bummed to see Trek raise prices in tires I really like. I'm not thinking Schwalbe are worth $85 anymore. The unusual and effective Rene Hearse knobby tread is the only premium priced tire I've bought in past few years I felt were worth it.

imwji so have you actually ridden the Tufo Thundero or Speedero tires? I probably am due a new set of tires here in a month or two and would give them a try if anyone has actually ridden them on this forum.

Zman
0
imwjl
304 posts
#39May 30, 2022, 5:36 PM
Zurichman wrote:

imwji so have you actually ridden the Tufo Thundero or Speedero tires? I probably am due a new set of tires here in a month or two and would give them a try if anyone has actually ridden them on this forum.

Zman
No I haven't ridden them. All of what I've found - reviews, price, the design - spark some interest. I don't want to break any forum rules promoting other sites or firms not advertising here, but I'm sure you can find same stuff I did with some web searching. The USA seller just changed arrival date from June to early July. Direct from manufacturer had stock but a 200 Euro min order for inexpensive (free) shipping. The Speedero interests me based on season and other tires I have. Check out the BRR site often quoted here for info on Thundero.
0
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#40May 30, 2022, 7:24 PM
imwjl wrote:

No I haven't ridden them. All of what I've found - reviews, price, the design - spark some interest. I don't want to break any forum rules promoting other sites or firms not advertising here, but I'm sure you can find same stuff I did with some web searching. The USA seller just changed arrival date from June to early July. Direct from manufacturer had stock but a 200 Euro min order for inexpensive (free) shipping. The Speedero interests me based on season and other tires I have. Check out the BRR site often quoted here for info on Thundero.
imwji since you have some interest in this tire saw this tire review of the Tufo Thnundero tire. Good enough you I am buying the 700 x 40 tan wall when Bike tires Direct gets them in stock 6/16. $10 cheaper than my Donnley xplor MSO .

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/tufo-thundero-writeup.1197028/?fbclid=IwAR2pDkR75WFqI2oHDv-BH5q3HXGt3TwLtYXHF3xgLu5klRCA5yVLbKDO3Xw

Zman
2

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